"Nixon has been impeached",

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:18 am

Both still sound OK to me, depending on emphasis. If I had to place bets on which I was more likely to hear, I'd lay a fiver on (1), but I wouldn't rule out (2) if the emphasis was on the impeachment process, as they could continue to happen in the future. If you're emphasising the history aspect, or if the US ceased to exist as a political entity, past simple would be appropriate.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:34 am

lolwhites wrote: if the emphasis was on the impeachment process, as they could continue to happen in the future. If you're emphasising the history aspect, or if the US ceased to exist as a political entity, past simple would be appropriate.

And that's the key, IMO. The present perfect ties the reference to Now, and so we imply that the process of impeachment may continue at some time in the future.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:36 am

Lorikeet wrote:
metal56 wrote:Which answer would you commonly give to the question below?

Which American presidents have been impeached?

1. Nixon was impeached (and so was ..., and ...etc.)

2. Nixon has been impeached (and so has ..., and ...etc.)
As I said, I'd use number 1. Sorry, number 2 still sounds funny.

How about:

Aristotle has been studied for centuries.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:09 pm

"Of all the American presidents, Nixon is the only one who has been impeached"

I agree with previous posts that the past simple in the above would suggest that it couldn't happen again because the USA had become a monarchy, or been balkanised into lots of little countries or its present political system had disappeared in some other manner.

I don't think Nixon did get impeached in the end, by the way.

It reminds me of an example, perhaps on this forum, of someone walking past a cinema, which had on it the name and times of a film that was still showing highly visible, and being surprised by his friend saying "Did you see that film?".

Guess which the American was. I think Lorikeet's "sounds funny" is mutual in these situations.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:52 pm

JuanTwoThree wrote:
I don't think Nixon did get impeached in the end, by the way.

Nixon was impeached, then pardoned by Ford.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:54 pm

JuanTwoThree wrote:
It reminds me of an example, perhaps on this forum, of someone walking past a cinema, which had on it the name and times of a film that was still showing highly visible, and being surprised by his friend saying "Did you see that film?".
I think that person was me. I just cannot get to grips with the AmEng way of abusing the present perfect.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:32 pm

The House of Representatives authorised the Judiciary Committee to see if there were grounds to impeach, but never voted on the matter because Nixon resigned, although the articles of impeachment were drawn up. The Judiciary Committee had voted on some of the articles.

So he was and wasn't.

Ford pardoned him to avoid a drawn out trial. Nixon was pardoned for crimes he committed and for crimes he may have committed.

WWW.watergate.info

Macavity · Post by **Macavity** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:50 pm

I refer you to my previous post in this thread. Nixon was pardoned by Ford for his involvement in the Watergate affair, not for his impeachment. Ford couldn’t have pardoned Nixon concerning his impeachment as a) Nixon was never formally impeached, and b) had he been so, Ford as president would not have been empowered to act on this. But this was hardly the point of my previous post, rather, it was to set up a context by which it is possible to show how both past simple and present perfect could be used in reference to this subject matter. I do wonder at some of the attitudes in this forum, I must say! I shan’t post here again; you remind me of some very unpleasant types that I had the misfortune to know in school and again later at uni. Sad! I had hoped to gain something through getting involved in discussion in this forum. I see now that you have little to offer. I am what you would no doubt call a “Billy Browser” – and feel no shame in that. Adieu!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:03 am

Macavity wrote:I refer you to my previous post in this thread. Nixon was pardoned by Ford for his involvement in the Watergate affair, not for his impeachment. Ford couldn’t have pardoned Nixon concerning his impeachment as a) Nixon was never formally impeached, and b) had he been so, Ford as president would not have been empowered to act on this. But this was hardly the point of my previous post, rather, it was to set up a context by which it is possible to show how both past simple and present perfect could be used in reference to this subject matter. I do wonder at some of the attitudes in this forum, I must say! I shan’t post here again; you remind me of some very unpleasant types that I had the misfortune to know in school and again later at uni. Sad! I had hoped to gain something through getting involved in discussion in this forum. I see now that you have little to offer. I am what you would no doubt call a “Billy Browser” – and feel no shame in that. Adieu!

I do wonder at some of the attitudes in this forum, I must say! I shan’t post here again; you remind me of some very unpleasant types that I had the misfortune to know in school and again later at uni. Sad!

On yer way then, big fella. We might just get by without you.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:05 am

I see now that you have little to offer. I am what you would no doubt call a “Billy Browser” – and feel no shame in that. Adieu!

Correction, you are what many would call a troll and flamer. good luck on your travels.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:13 am

Sorry "we" didn't gratify by you by noticing and responding to your post in exactly the way you wanted "us" to, Mac...but your going on to say what you did isn't the way to make pals here, is it (and you're hardly one who continues discussions yourself, if the few threads that I've posted on after you have are anything to go by). I'd've thought restating or rephrasing things again, or addressing somebody by name and perhaps taking up a point that they'd made (and you perhaps disgreed with or hadn't quite "understood") might've been the way to go about getting noticed more and integrating yerself. Anyway, discussions on the net sometimes don't take off for whatever reasons...often the topic just doesn't excite 100% attention...and that could be the case here (especially when people get on their high horse and trot off in a huff).

sbourque · Post by **sbourque** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:23 pm

well, it's gratifying to see that the present perfect can arouse so much passionate debate...and some claim that English grammar is dry!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:51 pm

sbourque wrote:well, it's gratifying to see that the present perfect can arouse so much passionate debate...and some claim that English grammar is dry!

In the hands of some, it can be just that.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:15 pm

metal56 wrote:
Lorikeet wrote:
metal56 wrote:Which answer would you commonly give to the question below?

Which American presidents have been impeached?

1. Nixon was impeached (and so was ..., and ...etc.)

2. Nixon has been impeached (and so has ..., and ...etc.)
As I said, I'd use number 1. Sorry, number 2 still sounds funny.
How about:

Aristotle has been studied for centuries.

Sorry, with the wink I'm not sure ir you are serious or not. Of course that sentence sounds fine, presuming people still study Aristotle

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:22 pm

But the processes of impeachment and studying differ greatly in the time taken (to complete - there is no end to study), and when studying we do not study the actual person/body but the things written by him or her whilst still alive (or sayings attributed to him or her).