Everyone has an accent of some kind. Even native English speakers have their own accents, so I see no problem with ESL students having accents as well.
Having lived in Hong Kong for 27 years, I now speak fluent Cantonese, and many friends tell me I have no accent. Bosh! When I try to speak Mandarin, they also tell me I speak with a Cantonese accent.
Don't sweat the accent. As long as communication is taking place, it's all the same in the end.
Speak like a native?
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Re: Speak like a native?
This is a massive generalisation Even native speakers sometimes have to modify their accents for communication to take place. And I would argue that the student who wants to be an English teacher will need to be able to do more than just communicate. It depends on why your students need English.Lotus wrote:Don't sweat the accent. As long as communication is taking place, it's all the same in the end.
Re: Speak like a native?
[/quote]This is a massive generalisation Even native speakers sometimes have to modify their accents for communication to take place. And I would argue that the student who wants to be an English teacher will need to be able to do more than just communicate. It depends on why your students need English.[/quote]
No argument. However, I was responding to the intial post, (Nowadays, socio-linguists are talking about establishing our social identity by way of speaking our own dialects ... ), which only specifies the sociological aspect of accent.
I once had a student whose purpose in studying was to learn to speak like a native so that she could perform better as a secondary school English teacher. I worked with her for two years, and I never saw any improvement in her accent whatsoever. She worked very hard; we both did. She is one of those people who simply cannot escape her mother tongue phonics patterns. That does not make her a bad English teacher, especially in Hong Kong. I also know an ESL teacher who is from Texas, USA. Now, some of my best friends are Texans, but I'll have to admit that of these two accents, the Cantonese accented phonics are preferable in this culture.
One more paragraph, and then I'm done. Yesterday on the bus, I overheard someone's radio. The program seemed to be some sort of English lesson. The speaker had a very pronounced Cantonese accent, and his explanations were partly in English and partly in Cantonese. I don't think any native Cantonese speaker would have any problem at all understanding his English in spite of the accent. What I did wonder about was the topic. He gave the spelling, definition and then two very good English sentences to illustrate the use of insouciance. Even without any tracable accent, that is not a word most people use, whatever their linguistic background. Sorry, that's just a pet peeve; teaching very proper words to a general audience that are not generally usable, even to native speakers.
No argument. However, I was responding to the intial post, (Nowadays, socio-linguists are talking about establishing our social identity by way of speaking our own dialects ... ), which only specifies the sociological aspect of accent.
I once had a student whose purpose in studying was to learn to speak like a native so that she could perform better as a secondary school English teacher. I worked with her for two years, and I never saw any improvement in her accent whatsoever. She worked very hard; we both did. She is one of those people who simply cannot escape her mother tongue phonics patterns. That does not make her a bad English teacher, especially in Hong Kong. I also know an ESL teacher who is from Texas, USA. Now, some of my best friends are Texans, but I'll have to admit that of these two accents, the Cantonese accented phonics are preferable in this culture.
One more paragraph, and then I'm done. Yesterday on the bus, I overheard someone's radio. The program seemed to be some sort of English lesson. The speaker had a very pronounced Cantonese accent, and his explanations were partly in English and partly in Cantonese. I don't think any native Cantonese speaker would have any problem at all understanding his English in spite of the accent. What I did wonder about was the topic. He gave the spelling, definition and then two very good English sentences to illustrate the use of insouciance. Even without any tracable accent, that is not a word most people use, whatever their linguistic background. Sorry, that's just a pet peeve; teaching very proper words to a general audience that are not generally usable, even to native speakers.
Speak like a native?
I do have a few issues with that.
In some languages, there is in fact an academy that regulates the language and decides waht is correct and what isn't. English hasn't got one, so how are we to now what a native speaker sounds like, let alone teach such an accent?
If you tell me you want to speak like a native speaker, my first question will be "a native British, Canadian, American, Australian, New Zealand, Aouth African or Irish accent? Not to mention that there are native speakers of English in India too, with an Indian accent of course. So which 'native' accent do you want to learn?
If let's say, he should say 'British', then I might ast 'why not American'?
Now let's say he says 'British is more correct'? Do we leave it at that, or do we correct his stereotype? After all, what's wrong with a native Indian accent? 1% of people in India do in fact speak English as a native language. What? We'll deny that accent because it's not British? So, I can reject the British accent because it's not Indian. Same logic.
So how do we define a native accent? And what stereotypes might be revealed in defining what constitutes a native accent?
This also leads to another question: Is English an ethnic or internaitonal language?
If it's international, then all accents (not to mention dialects)are equally valid (after all, what justice is there in adopting a national standard for an internaitonal language?). If on the other hand, we insist that we must follow an Anglo-saxon accent, then it would be hipocritical of the same teacher to proclaim English a world language.
Either idea can be acceptable, but consistency in the reasoning is required if we intend to teach our students logical thought alongside English.
I do have a few issues with that.
In some languages, there is in fact an academy that regulates the language and decides waht is correct and what isn't. English hasn't got one, so how are we to now what a native speaker sounds like, let alone teach such an accent?
If you tell me you want to speak like a native speaker, my first question will be "a native British, Canadian, American, Australian, New Zealand, Aouth African or Irish accent? Not to mention that there are native speakers of English in India too, with an Indian accent of course. So which 'native' accent do you want to learn?
If let's say, he should say 'British', then I might ast 'why not American'?
Now let's say he says 'British is more correct'? Do we leave it at that, or do we correct his stereotype? After all, what's wrong with a native Indian accent? 1% of people in India do in fact speak English as a native language. What? We'll deny that accent because it's not British? So, I can reject the British accent because it's not Indian. Same logic.
So how do we define a native accent? And what stereotypes might be revealed in defining what constitutes a native accent?
This also leads to another question: Is English an ethnic or internaitonal language?
If it's international, then all accents (not to mention dialects)are equally valid (after all, what justice is there in adopting a national standard for an internaitonal language?). If on the other hand, we insist that we must follow an Anglo-saxon accent, then it would be hipocritical of the same teacher to proclaim English a world language.
Either idea can be acceptable, but consistency in the reasoning is required if we intend to teach our students logical thought alongside English.
Yes, Machjo, my point exactly. There is no such thing as unaccented speech, no matter what language you are speaking. We do our students a grave injustice if we allow them to perpetuate the wrong headed idea that they have to get rid of their accent in order to produce acceptable English. BTW, I tried my best to disabuse my student of her goal to, in her words, speak like a native, but she couldn't accept what I had to say. She was listening to her colleagues, most of whom were educated for several years in one of the English speaking countries. Which brings up another can of worms, which covers a lot more than accent.
Often, what we battle in class is not a student's inability, but what is accepted as accurate in his/her culture; or, even worse, what they have been taught by some former, highly respected and/or beloved teacher, who happened to get it wrong, or just different. I've been at this game for 27 years, and at least three students have told me that I say something incorrectly, because they were previously taught a different pronunciation by a native Cantonese speaker. Then, there are also those who fail to accept that there are many Englishes in the world. If it's English, then it has to sound like whoever they originally learned English from, be they American (pick a state, any state), British, Indian, or what have you.
Just recently, I accepted a 12 year old Korean student. She has studied in the state of Wyoming for the last 3 years, yet she once asked me about her accent, because her younger sister accused her of speaking English like their parents! There is nothing at all wrong with the way she sounds. She is perfectly comprehensible. Her real problem is understanding how to use vocabulary.
Okay, I've ranted long enough. I just really wanted to say that I appreciate that you and I seem to be on the same page.
Often, what we battle in class is not a student's inability, but what is accepted as accurate in his/her culture; or, even worse, what they have been taught by some former, highly respected and/or beloved teacher, who happened to get it wrong, or just different. I've been at this game for 27 years, and at least three students have told me that I say something incorrectly, because they were previously taught a different pronunciation by a native Cantonese speaker. Then, there are also those who fail to accept that there are many Englishes in the world. If it's English, then it has to sound like whoever they originally learned English from, be they American (pick a state, any state), British, Indian, or what have you.
Just recently, I accepted a 12 year old Korean student. She has studied in the state of Wyoming for the last 3 years, yet she once asked me about her accent, because her younger sister accused her of speaking English like their parents! There is nothing at all wrong with the way she sounds. She is perfectly comprehensible. Her real problem is understanding how to use vocabulary.
Okay, I've ranted long enough. I just really wanted to say that I appreciate that you and I seem to be on the same page.