What's going on?

[Duncan Powrie]

Stephens comment could be nothing else but true. It an obvious thing to say.

You tell 'em, metal. Me cute fluffy wuffy mouse scurrying around in search of cake (and mouse that wanna eat it too! ).

I find that too restrictive and a piece of advice that teachers, on the whole, do not follow in their own usage.

I didn't mean for that to be literally taken as advice...but such a teacher would be offering a wider gamut of lexicogrammatical options to his or her students.

How about the student who tells you that he may want to be "offensive" at times?

The problem I found in the ailing conversation school that I worked in (briefly) here in Japan (ironically enough) was that the "problem" students who'd been placed into one (small) class had grown accustomed to being as rude and direct as they liked and their clique allowed...I had to bite my tongue at times. (If any of them are reading this, I'd like to say to them, way to go, "girls", your English or rather your manners when talking in English SUCKED, and thanks for taking the time to "welcome" me, for giving me a chance, and for giving me the chance to get to know you all so "well" ). I guess the customer isn't always right...not that that stops them from feeling they are!

But of course, this just shows how much (those) students need(ed) irony (because I see it as having the potential to inject humour and defuse tense situations if used appropriately and well - not that I was the one, in that situation, who could've gotten away with being cheeky!)...I just wonder if that specific class could've made it work and have not ended up sounding "sarcastic", though (had I felt like teaching them about such things )...

Perhaps students are generally going to fall into one of two groups: those who will always prefer to be meek and mild and "pleasantly" direct, and those who will verge on rudeness (loud or unpleasant directness), and probably neither group will end up being capable of using irony well (just another attempt there to explain your original stats).

But generally, at least as far as a "receptive" understanding of irony is concerned, I would say to teachers GO FOR IT! There is probably a sizeable minority of students who WILL "get" what it's all about, and thank you for it.

By the way, loved the link.

[metal56]

Perhaps students are generally going to fall into one of two groups: those who will always prefer to be meek and mild and "pleasantly" direct, and those who will verge on rudeness (loud or unpleasant directness), and probably neither group will end up being capable of using irony well (just another attempt there to explain your original stats).

Aarrghhh! That sounds like a scary bit of Dualism.

But generally, at least as far as a "receptive" understanding of irony is concerned, I would say to teachers GO FOR IT! There is probably a sizeable minority of students who WILL "get" what it's all about, and thank you for it.

Optimist, eh?

By the way, loved the link.

Good.

[Duncan Powrie]

Hey, although I just slagged off that ex-class of mine, I do recall them using some irony in their exchanges with each other...but it was pretty basic, obvious and painfully unamusing stuff (to watch), in my opinion hardly born from a genuine and spontaneous affection or warmth for their classmates (it wasn't even "clever"); and it was never, "unfortunately", aimed at me.*

I hope I don't sound like I am just some bitter b*stard wanting to rant and rail against past, personal "injustices"; I had nothing personal against the people in that class, and actually think it's a shame that things didn't go better (because actually, they had reasonable English); perhaps I was a bit "burnt out" at the time (and HEY, maybe I still am! )? But just take it from me, I don't think there'd've ultimately been any satisfying them, even if I had been trying my hardest.

Anyway, I am "sharing" this experience with everyone simply because I've realized that it would seem capable of shedding some light on what irony probably is NOT (or, if you'd prefer, it is suggesting that irony is capable of being and achieving much more). Irony, it would therefore seem, is not just about manipulating form but also involves intangibles such as "spirit" (i.e. the spirit in which it is used), and if used well, in this right spirit, it can really help build genuine friendships.

* I think that I'd've gone crazy if I'd actually needed to RESPOND to it myself! What could we call this kind of "irony"?!

[metal56]

there'd've

A contractionist after my own heart.