Globish

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:51 am

Surely you must know your reason for asking such a question? If your intention is to get the listener to go and see the film, why would you use the simple form?

The nuance is trivial and not worth having a different tense to put it in.
It only goes to show why two nations are divided by a
common language.
I am with the Americans here.

How much trauma a learner has to undergo worrying
about such non-issues, in effect.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:56 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:
EG

I just had lunch.

I've just had lunch.
What is the great ambiguity there?

Your addition of the word "great" is interesting.

I met her at seven. I just had a sandwich. We walked and talked for hours.

Had the speaker only eaten a sandwich and nothing more? Did he eat the sandwich before or after he met the woman?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:00 am

The nuance is trivial and not worth having a different tense to put it in.

For me, you confuse the whole idea of what the present perfect and past simple are for. The past simple is seen as disconnected from the present, no matter how short the time period, and the present perfect includes the present. That's why it's called the present perfect.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:00 am

Your addition of the word "great" is interesting.

Why?? Did I say anything wrong?

I met her at seven. I just had a sandwich. We walked and talked for hours.

Had the speaker only eaten a sandwich and nothing more? Did he eat the sandwich before or after he met the woman?

Either way, what's the big deal, metal.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:06 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:
Either way, what's the big deal, metal.

To me, the clarity between simple forms and perfect forms.

Why?? Did I say anything wrong?

Not really, but I didn't mention great ambiguity. What may be minimal to some NES speakers may be massive to some NNES.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:18 am

The past simple is seen as disconnected from the present, no matter how short the time period, and the present perfect includes the present. That's why it's called the present perfect.

We were forcibly taught a great deal of this in school.
So what if it is connected or not with the present?
Who cares?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:19 am

We were forcibly taught a great deal of this in school.
So what if it is connected or not with the present?
Who cares?

I do, and I'm surprised that you don't. Do you teach AE?

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:22 am

It's no good trying to convince a Brit about the
redundance of the present perfect anyway.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:23 am

As I said earlier, I teach a mix of AE and BE.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:51 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:It's no good trying to convince a Brit about the
redundance of the present perfect anyway.

Or a linguist. Try. Why is it redundant? Where is it redundant?

I'm not quite sure as to why you would object to forms such as those below in your classes, but you wouldn't object to the use of "I just ate a sandwich" over "I have/had just eaten a sandwich". Why is that?

I have this friend >goes hunting regularly.
There's a tree >sits at the top of the hill.
It was Dave >did it
Anybody >does that ought to be shot!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 11:52 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:As I said earlier, I teach a mix of AE and BE.

And do you advise your students to use one or the other, but not both?

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:01 pm

Or a linguist.

I am myself a hard-core linguist.
My specialization is Chomskyan linguistics.

And do you advise your students to use one or the other, but not both?

In tenses and letter-writing, I follow AE.
In spelling, I follow either.
I preach what I practise.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:09 pm

I don't know, but if it is the case that the Brits are more
prone to hypertension compared to the Americans,
you can directly relate it to the present perfect tense.
(worrying about unnecessary details.)
I am concerned about the health of the people they teach.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:13 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote:I don't know, but if it is the case that the Brits are more
prone to hypertension compared to the Americans,
you can directly relate it to the present perfect tense.
(worrying about unnecessary details.)

Hmm. Why and when, again, is the present perfect unecessary?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:14 pm

My specialization is Chomskyan linguistics.

Why?

In tenses and letter-writing, I follow AE.

And what do AE rules have to say about the use, or redundant nature, of the present perfect? Why are so many AE speakers still using what you claim to be a redundant form?