Acceptable or unacceptable?

[metal56]

If you were made of softer stuff I'd bend your ear or twist your arm more, but you are metal. Metal tatooed shouted me angried.

What do you want to know? Just ask, but give me time to spin a few untruths.

[fluffyhamster]

Do you know how long I have lived on your Sceptic Isle?

Glad to hear you like living England, anyway!

Existential/experiential present perfect. I no longer live there.

That post of yours being quoted again, eh, metal. Seems you're popular round here for some reason.

Just had a thought (yes it happens sometimes, when my fingers stop typing). I'm not saying the beginning 'Do' (of 'Do you know...') governs or controls or restricts or whatevers (new word?) the following verb forms, but I do have a theory that it leads the listener to think 'Present! Still! Hungry! Banana! Must! Eat!'*, unless they specifically hear '(Do you know how long) I lived'.

What would undermine my theory is, of course, context (where we are when we meet, what I know about you, where you are living now - although I must say I still think Simple past is better if a person doesn't live anymore in the place they are "experientially" relating to, unless they are making a list of places...but that is just my intuition speaking, I'd need to do some serious rsearch regarding "place(s - lists)" to be sure).

And the interesting (albeit obvious?) thing is that net forums provide almost zero context beyond what is specifically said, so, in the absence of supporting linguistic context, it is certainly a possible place in which to see how "people" actually think and process grammar/syntax alone (we can make very strong inferences on the basis of the "mistake" that was made). It is almost like a Chomskyan research paradigm come true (maybe somebody should write and tell MIT to start browing net forums).

Actually, that brings me to a genuine question (this isn't a wind-up, I think it is actually important and worth discussing): do you imagine that people "generally" process present perfect in the way I "should have", and perhaps would have in a "real" context?

Perhaps not after all (apologies for not using a 'Do you know...' context, but I couldn't think of any that didn't involve the guy either still being in the UK, or being outside trying to get back in , I couldn't think of any that involved the guy being elsewhere without him rattling off a list):

A is a tourist from the UK on a trip in Ireland, where he's just met and struck up a conversation about something inconsequential with B, an Irish fellah. (B used to live in the UK, but now lives back in Ireland, but A doesn't "know" anything just yet other than that B appears to be Irish - from his accent - and that he seems at home). B asks A about his travels, which leads into talk about travel, and the places A has lived (he's garralous and well-travelled compared to B). Now it's A's turn to start asking B a question:

A: So, have you (ever been or) lived abroad, B?
B: I've lived in the UK for twenty years.
...(noticeable silent gap, waiting)
A: Um , anywhere else? (But this guy is in Ireland now!)
B: No.

Maybe B could have said this (only kidding!):

??I've lived in the UK for twenty years, but that's it.
(*A: What, are you leaving? Why, oh why?)

OK I was cheating, let's change the change the 'it' to 'all' and see how that plays:

?I've lived in the UK for twenty years, but that's all (I'm not lying, I swear).

Nah, sorry, it still sounds odd to me. I guess I will continue to make mistakes of interpretation (of what people meant, at least!) on net forums for the forseeable future.

There's also the 'how long' to consider, that might extend into and affect people's thinking as much as an expected "listing" does, when the person speaking isn't by all appearances living in the first country they've mentioned.

Waffle, perhaps. Nobody's intuition could be this "good". All just silly theorizing to compensate for my lack of formal knowledge and exposure.

*Not all those word are relevant to this dicsussion.

[metal56]

I'm not saying the beginning 'Do' (of 'Do you know...') governs or controls or restricts or whatevers (new word?) the following verb forms, but I do have a theory that it leads the listener to think 'Present! Still! Hungry! Banana! Must! Eat!'*, unless they specifically hear '(Do you know how long) I lived'.

You would be right. The "Do you know" part of the sentence is present. It's asking about your present knowledge.

Actually, that brings me to a genuine question (this isn't a wind-up, I think it is actually important and worth discussing): do you imagine that people "generally" process present perfect in the way I "should have", and perhaps would have in a "real" context?

No, I think they do not. The experiential pres. perf. is a bit of a bugger to get one's head around.

My head is spinning with all the res. You do write a lot, don't you?

Did you consider stress/emphasis?

Do you know how long I have lived on your Sceptic Isle?

You where talking about how long you had lived there, I was stating that I too have some authority where BrEng is concered.