Try to vs Try and; and "That-clauses"

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:57 pm

Does anyone out there see any difference in meaning between:

"Try to get some sleep"; and
"Try and get some sleep."

Is "try" the only verb that can take this structure, and does anyone know what this structure is called.

I've called it an "and-clause" , but I don't know if that's the correct term.

Also, has anyone heard of "that-clauses" (I'm not talking about relative clauses here.)

Because "that" is such a common word, I've been unable to find them in an internet search.

Bo · Post by Bo » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:20 pm

Hi there,

no idea what the structure is called, but I suppose "go" also falls into this category.

He asked me to go (and) get a hammer.

As regards those "that clauses", I think you were referring to subjunctive clauses.

The workers demanded that they get higher salaries.
He recommended that I eat more fruit.

Hope this helped.

B.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:22 pm

Thanks for the example of "go" Bo. After my post, I realised that "stop" also fits this pattern: You should stop and think before you get too involved.

I'll probably find "that-clauses again if I really try.

I can only remember this, they were related to the catenatives, but they definitely weren't relative clauses or the subjunctive (although the subjunctive is related to the catenatives.)

Bo or anyone else can you think of more verbs that fit the "and-clause" pattern (if indeed that's what its called.)

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:56 pm

also the British tend to say Let's go and eat
while the Americans prefer
let's go eat

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:34 pm

Yes, although I have heard Americans say, "let's go eat," it had escaped my attention with regard to catenatives, yes, you guessed it, my favorite subject.

This would mean that "go" like modals can be followed by the bare infinitive (at least in US English.)

"Go" does not appear to to carry modality with it and it seems that this form is only possible in very restricted circumstances. Following "Let" and the contraction of the pronoun "us".

Interesting.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:59 am

How about, "I'm going to go buy something later today."
"She had to go get something for dinner."
"I have to go find my keys."
"I'm going to go talk to his teacher."

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 9:20 am

Go is certainly an interesting verb in US English. Going to has of course been used to form future tenses for quite some time. Recently we have also had go figure. Although I find this expression a little rude, it does seem to have modal qualities, could go by turning into a modal verb?

Metamorfose · Post by **Metamorfose** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 12:03 pm

"Come" also goes into this category:

I'll come (and) help you as soon as it's possible.

José