word order

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:17 am

Do accept (1)?

(1) Just anybody cannot do this job.

Thank you for your help
Seiichi MYOGA

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:57 am

I would recognize and more easily understand something more along the lines of: "Not just anybody can do this job", or "This isn't a job for (just) any old Tom D*ck or Harry!" etc.

revel · Post by **revel** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 6:35 am

Good morning!

Nope, can't accept "Just anybody cannot do this job."

Would say "Not everybody can do this job."

or

"Only a few can do this job."

I like the Tom D*ck and Harry one (what foolishness that we have to put an * in place of the i in that name....will the program let me type in the name of the Bond film "Octopussy"?

) (previewing, I see it does allow that one!

)

In positive, I would accept "Just about anybody can do this job."

I'll let those more versed in the field explain the whys, this is merely the point of view of one ESL teacher (native from Illinois!)

peace,
revel.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:36 pm

Just about anybody can do this job
is fine.
So is Any Tom Dick and Harry can do this job.

Now when we want the negative we've got to think about what we want to negate, and it isn't 'can do'.
So
Just about anybody can't do this job.
is not correct.

What we need to negate is 'Just about anybody' or 'Any Tom Dick or Harry' and that's not quite so easy.

Probably with the right intonation we get
Not just anybody can do this job.

but I prefer a passive sentence here to give the due stress to the agent we are negating.
This job can't be done by just anybody/by any Tom Dick or Harry.

or we can lexicalize the emphasis
It takes more than just anybody to do this job.

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:58 pm

Ah, I was wondering why you guys were dealing in positive sentences, but then you went on to address the scope of negation, Stephen. Nice work!

Your passive and "lexicalized" example are interesting alternatives (but I'm not sure they'd roll of the tongue as easily as the version using just intonation). A matter of personal taste and style, probably.

I wonder what Mr. MYOGA makes of all this...

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:38 am

Oh, I forgot to add, as the thread is called "word order", I took that to mean that Mr Myoga would prefer us to just rearrange the existing words in his original sentence, and not post too many expanded versions or substantially differing alternatives.

Nevertheless, the wider range of phrases is probably something that most people would explicitly welcome.

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 11:25 am

Thank you all.

I wondered if you would take (doing) this job as a topic.

By the way,
what is really negated here still bothers me.

Do you think (1) and (2) mean the same?

(1) Not just anybody can do this job.
(2) It isn't just anybody who can do this job.

Seiichi MYOGA

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 1:22 pm

Yes they do mean the same.

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:04 pm

Dear Stephen, if you didn't mind my calling you that way,

I appreciate your help.

Lastly, can I ask you the meaning of (1)?

If we were to explain the idea that (1) is most naturally expected to convey, do you agree that (3) is a good explanatory sentence?

(1) Not just anybody can do this job.

(3) When it comes to (doing) this job, I think you need special skills, so this is not for just anybody.

Seiichi MYOGA

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:59 pm

You're quite right

Seiichi MYOGA · Post by **Seiichi MYOGA** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 11:32 pm

Dear Stephen,

I appreciate your help.

I forgot to ask something:

(4) a. This is not a job just anybody can do.
b. This job is not something just anybody can do.
c. This job is not what just anybody can do.

Q1: Do you think we can use any one of (4) in place of (5a)?

(5) a. Not just anybody can do this job.
b. Not anybody can do this job.

I think (5a) and (5b) mean two different things, although you would prefer "Nobody can do this job" instead of (5a).
Q2: Do you agree that even if we drop "just" out of the sentences in (4), we can replace any one with (5a)?

Seiichi MYOGA

revel · Post by **revel** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:10 am

Hey all!

Maybe I just feel overworked after two wonderful months of vacation time and now having to organize my life around classes, but this thread is beginning to sound like a game I used to play with my siblings:

Say a word, any word, over and over and over again until it doesn't mean anything at all.

Not everybody can do such a thing!

peace,
revel.

Teacher Discussion Forums

word order

word order

Nope.

Overworked?