The Routine On Yesterday

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:28 pm

The Routine On Yesterday

Everyone can use Simple Past tense, but can everyone explain why we use it?

People have always been hypnotized by grammar writers and accepted the utterance that something happened yesterday must be a finish, and therefore we use Simple Past to say it.

But here we would like to look closer what happens with yesterday. Can Simple Past with yesterday stand for a finish?

Say, if you have a habit of swimming every day, and Yesterday you swam, do you mean that, in Simple Past, the habit is not continuous today? Does Simple Past imply the habit finishes on yesterday? Please think about it.

If you eat dinner as a routine, and Yesterday you ate dinner, does Simple Past mean that the routine is finished and will not continue today? But the routine does continue today, I am sure. It follows that what happens yesterday is not necessarily finished.

Examples like these are endless. You played golf yesterday? Does Simple Past imply that your playing golf ends there, and you don't play anymore?

Did you teach in school yesterday? If yes, does Simple Past imply that the teaching does not continue today?

Not only yesterday, the same argument applies to last week, two days ago, etc., any time adverbial that favors Simple Past.

So, what is the point in saying, "when we use yesterday, we take Simple Past because the action is now finished"? How much truth is in here?

Ultimately, if you don't like the way grammar books have formulated, would you please tell us, in your own way, the reason we use Simple Past?

Your opinion is welcome.

Xui

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:44 am

Well, "Xui"

, - doesn't it just mean that the particular action of swimming, or whatever, on that occasion, is finished? Whether we may or may not perform a similar action again seems unimportant.

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:18 am

The sentence "I played golf yesterday" means only that I engaged in that particular activity yesterday.

It does not imply anything about that game of golf, such as its duration, the number of holes played, whether one or more than one game was played, whether the game was concluded or to be carried on at a later date, or that my playing golf was a regular occurrence. It certainly does not imply that it is not something I will do today: to convey that you need to say something like: 'I played golf for the last time yesterday' or 'I have finished with golf'.

I think you have misunderstood something somewhere in you study of this topic.

Harzer

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:43 am

Nice to have you back Shuntang, and to see that whatever you have been doing in your absence it certainly wasn't improving your English.

"when we use yesterday, we take Simple Past because the action is now finished"?

Nope, we use the simple past not because the action is finished but because yesterday is finished. Take a look at these two sentences:
The dog ate the baby sitter yesterday.
The dog's eaten the baby sitter.

In both cases the action of eating is complete (else we would have said the dog had half-eaten the baby sitter). The difference is that in the Present Perfect example no specific time is mentioned.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 6:58 am

woodcutter wrote:Well, "Xui" , - doesn't it just mean that the particular action of swimming, or whatever, on that occasion, is finished? Whether we may or may not perform a similar action again seems unimportant.

Hi Woodcutter,

First, the swimming is not particular. Secondly, the habit of swimming continues today. That is to say, Simple Past is used to report a continuity on yesterday.

Xui

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:16 am

Stephen Jones,

Nice to see you too. But your logic is getting worse!!

You wrote:Nope, we use the simple past not because the action is finished but because yesterday is finished. Take a look at these two sentences:
The dog ate the baby sitter yesterday.
The dog's eaten the baby sitter.

That is what I want to hear from readers: ".....we use the simple past not because the action is finished....."
We actually don't use Simple Past to express a finish, contradicting the usual utterance in grammars.

Furthermore, we are talking ROUTINE, if the word means anything to you. Your examples are interesting, but not a ROUTINE. I am sorry you didn't even know what we are talking about.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:51 am

Harzer wrote:The sentence "I played golf yesterday" means only that I engaged in that particular activity yesterday.

I think you have misunderstood something somewhere in you study of this topic.
Harzer
==================

Thank you Harzer,

That is what I want to hear from readers: ".... only that I engaged in that particular activity...." Now as for Simple Past, you didn't mention a finish anymore, did you? As you see, I discuss with some readers in another forum, and they claimed that Simple Past indicates a finish at a certain time. Of course I have to deny. Now I can refer them to the most educated readers here.

Yes, people have been misled that Simple Past should express a finish, as the following page teaches:

Use the Simple Past to express the idea that an action started and finished at a specific time in the past. Sometimes the speaker may not actually mention the specific time, but they do have one specific time in mind.

EXAMPLES:
I saw a movie yesterday.
I didn't see a movie yesterday.

http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/simplepast.html

I have tons of such sayings.

Now you have clarified tons of confusions, confusions from the conventional grammars!! I don't know why, I can always get help from there.

What I can do if without your help!!

Thanks again,

Xui

Duncan Powrie · Post by **Duncan Powrie** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:56 am

Shun aka Xui, the grammars may be confusing to you, and even to many native speakers, but the actual language itself seems to work perfectly well in real life. Most people (including learners) "get over" these kind of fixations and actually improve their English all-round. Rather than take issue with so little, why not study a lot more (phrases, collocations etc)?

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:26 am

Duncan Powrie wrote:Shun aka Xui, the grammars may be confusing to you, and even to many native speakers, but the actual language itself seems to work perfectly well in real life. Most people (including learners) "get over" these kind of fixations and actually improve their English rather than worry about inconsequentialities. Rather than take issue with so little, why not study a lot more (phrases, collocations etc)?

How did you know I don't study phrases or collocations?

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:53 am

Following my initiate question, no one here will insist anymore that the routine ends yesterday. It is yesterday that have ended, just as Stephen Jones has nicely put.

Xui

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:10 am

English tense is sometimes difficult.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:36 am

We have back-up:

The three indefinite tenses, or simple tenses, describe an action but do not state whether the action is finished:

the simple past ("I went")
the simple present ("I go")
the simple future ("I will go")

http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/wri ... tense.html

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 10:52 am

I must say, the author of this web page is the pioneer of English tense. He attests that, even we state the past time, we don't necessarily regard the action is a finish:

=========

The Simple Past Tense
The simple past is used to describe an action, an event, or condition that occurred in the past, sometime before the moment of speaking or writing.
Each of the highlighted verbs in the following sentences is in the simple past tense and each sentence describes an action taking place at some point in past.
(Examples:)
A flea jumped from the dog to the cat.
Phoebe gripped the hammer tightly and nailed the boards together.
The gem-stones sparkled in a velvet lined display case.
Artemisia Gentilsechi probably died in 1652.
The storyteller began every story by saying "A long time ago when the earth was green."

http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/wri ... tense.html
(The web page is the one same as above.)

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:57 pm

Xui wrote: Most readers in other forums don't know Xui is Shun Tang.

You gotta be kidding. And large bold-face is very annoying.

Xui · Post by **Xui** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:41 pm

Lorikeet wrote:
Xui wrote: Most readers in other forums don't know Xui is Shun Tang.
You gotta be kidding. And large bold-face is very annoying.

Where is your logic? Tell me how many forums you know I am there, using the name Xui. How possibly you know?

Secondly, if the name is annoying, why did you focus on it and not the subject matter?

Other than the name, there is subject matter. Try to pay attention to one thing.

Xui