Fronting prepositional phrases

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:37 pm

English is a strongly SVO language - the word order for statements with transitive verbs is always: subject then verb then object, although the subject is missing in imperatives, and the object is missing in intransitive verbs (although a prepositional phrase may provide an indirect object.)

Bringing the prepositional phrase to the front sounds odd with intransitive verbs:

We stayed in a hotel; but not
*In a hotel, we stayed.

OK, you can say it in limericks, etc to get the rhyme right, but it's not usual in standard English.

With Transitive verbs, however, the situation is different - it is possible to put the prepositional phrase at the end as with intransitive verbs:

eg Candidates are expected to produce longer and more natural responses at higher levels.

But we can also begin with the prepositional phrase followed by a comma:

eg At higher levels, candidates are expected to produce longer and more natural responses.

At this point, you're probably wondering what this is all about. Well it seems to me that by fronting the prepositional phrase, we are creating a linking phrase. Linking phrases are of course useful in keeping the flow of ideas linked together. They can be conjunctions - the so called FANBOYS, but also adverbs and prepositional phrases.

I note that it is possible to front a sentence with only an intransitive verb provided there is another prepositional phrase at the end:

eg For three nights, we stayed in the hotel. This seems to work best (?only) with time expressions.

My questions are then:

1) Should we encourage this use of fronting prepositional phrases or is it better to use linking words and phrases like "furthermore" and "in spite of".

2) Can you overdo this? Is it best to leave fronting of prepositional phrases to topic sentences, leaving prepositions at the end of sentences for non-topic sentences.

3) Am I over-analysing.

4) Are there any prepositional phrases that can't be used as linking expressions?

charmedboi82 · Post by **charmedboi82** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 2:11 am

1)Well, I don't know if you should encourage it, but you definitely shouldn't discourage it.... I think that's the best way to answer the question.

2) You can overdo it, but I don't think you have to worry about that unless it's occurring in every sentence. Variety is always the best; it keeps the reader interested.

3) Yes.

4) I'm not totally sure what you mean, but I'm sure that there are some (always exceptions, eh?); however, none come to mind at the moment.

Kevin

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:11 pm

Thanks for replying.

The first two answers seem clear enough, Kevin, but if I am over-analysing... Could you expand on "Yes."

Please tell me why you said yes. Have you thought of any prepositional phrases that couldn't be used like this, btw.

I've been a little disapointed by the response to this post. I thought that I was really on to something. Oh well.

Larry, if you're reading this, I'd be especially interested in your input on this, as your writing stands out as being particularly well linked together.
Come on, what's your secret?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:32 pm

Andrew Patterson wrote:
I've been a little disapointed by the response to this post. I thought that I was really on to something. Oh well.

quote]

Sorry iftheis seems short reply, but I'm working from a cybercafe and am short of cash.

I just wanted to point out that not only linking is involved here but fronting of information that one thinks is more important or fronting for effect.

Back soon.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 7:03 pm

I just wanted to point out that not only linking is involved here but fronting of information that one thinks is more important or fronting for effect.

Good point metal

. I hadn't thought of that. So, are you saying that you should front prepositional phrases that contain important information that you want to bring to the readers' attention, and trail less important prepositional phrases? Ideally, perhaps, one should front important information that also links somehow to the previous sentence or paragraph.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:47 am

Just found this thread.

Thanks, Andy, for your nice words

, but now you really put the pressure on!

Actually, I don't consider myself any sort of authority in this particular area, but I do acknowledge your observations and also the comment by metal56. He is no doubt reminding us that English is, with the exception of noun phrases, essentially a head initial language. Headwords and ideas in phrases and in whole sentences, as well as in entire texts, tend to be at the front. We even occasionally engage in topicalization, resulting is sentences such as, "Diets I never use anymore, since I always gain back more than I lose."

For that reason, fronting any information, including prepositional phrases should not appear to be particularly odd in English. Of course it can be overdone, as our new friend, charmedboi82, points out. But he is also right in suggesting we shouldn't worry too much about that.

You always over analyze, Andy.

But then, that's why we love you. You can always be counted on to make us toe the logical line of our reasoning. Should we get lazy, you will call us to task.

Are there prep. phrases which cannot be fronted? Well, I can't think of any at the moment which I'd be willing to bet cannot be used that way, but there are some that I'd expect would be pretty unlikely:

off her bed
within those bottles of bitter
underneath my skin

All are possible, but none are very likely, I should think.

Larry Latham

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:42 pm

Actually, I don't consider myself any sort of authority in this particular area.

Maybe you're just a natural writer

.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:49 pm

If I remember rightly, wasn't the fronting of prepositional phrases a feature of Yoda's speech?

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:52 pm

Right you are.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:07 pm

Now you're really out of my area.

Natural writer, Andy? Naw, just callouses at the ends of my fingers, and a pile of used and broken keyboards in my trash. But thanks, anyway.

Larry Latham

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:21 pm

lolwhites wrote:

If I remember rightly, wasn't the fronting of prepositional phrases a feature of Yoda's speech?

I've just looked around briefly to see if this is true. The following dialog is from the Phantom menace. I'll check out the original Starwars later (unless someone else gets there before me.)

Looking at it, Yoda seems to put the subject and first verb to the end rather than fronting prepositional phrases.

Please don't say that fronting prepositional phrases makes you sound like Yoda. The whole point I had of starting this thread was to improve cohesion in writing. I think the whole point with Yoda was to make his speach sound disjointed. Fronting prepositional phrases without adding a second trailing prepositional phrase with intransitive verbs might make you sound like Yoda, but fronting other prepositional phrases, particularly time phrases, should have the opposite effect.

I note that Yoda specifically says, "May the Force be with you."
If he had fronted that prepositional phrase, he would have said, "With you, may the force be." As I said before, this does not sound good with intransitive verbs without a second trailing prepositional phrase.

QUI-GON: ...my only conclusion can be that it was a Sith Lord.
MACE WINDU: A Sith Lord?!?
KI-ADI: Impossible! The Sith have been extinct for a millennium.
YODA: The very republic is threatened, if involved the Sith are.
MACE WINDU: I do not believe they could have returned without us knowing.
YODA: Hard to see, the dark side is. Discover who this assassin is, we must.
KI-ADI: I sense he will reveal himself again.
MACE WINDU: This attack was with purpose, that is clear, and I agree the Queen is the target.
YODA: With this Naboo queen you must stay, Qui-Gon. Protect her.
MACE WINDU: We will use all resources here to unravel this mystery and discover the identity of your attacker...May the Force be with you.
YODA: May the Force be with you.
YODA: Master Qui-Gon, more to say have you?
QUI-GON: With your permission, my Master. I have encountered a vergence in the Force.
YODA: A vergence, you say?

MACE WINDU: Located around a person?
QUI-GON: A boy...his cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived by the midi-chlorians.
MACE WINDU: You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??
QUI-GON: I don't presume...
YODA: But you do! Revealed your opinion is.
QUI-GON: I request the boy be tested.
YODA: Trained as a Jedi, you request for him?
QUI-GON: Finding him was the will of the Force...I have no doubt of that. There is too much happening here...
MACE WINDU: Bring him before us, then.
YODA: Tested he will be.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:37 pm

Actually, from your sample it appears that Yoda breaks the sentence at the primary auxiliary (if one exists) or failing that the main verb, then fronts everything that comes after. The complement may or may not be a prepositional phrase.

LarryLatham · Post by **LarryLatham** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:09 pm

Now, I want to preface my remarks here by repeating, with emphasis, that this is definitely not my strong area.

With that said, it appears to me that Yoda's speech patterns are not particularly regular. I'm going to stick my neck out here and suggest that screenwriters might take advantage of native English speakers' (and perhaps the same could be said for non-native speakers as well) impressive ability to make sense out of a string of words, using contextual and other clues, even when that string does not follow any familiar syntactical pattern. A few writers may go so far as to invent a regular (though odd to English speakers) set of rules. Others may simply order the words of some characters in unexpected ways, much the same as EFL learners might, especially learners with dramatically different L1s. They do this, perhaps, to bind an exotic, otherworldly aura to those characters, particularly when they are writing fantasies. The implication is that, though the characters can express themselves in English, they are clearly from somewhere else. Certain characters in Lord of the Rings probably speak in much the same way, I would guess. Viewers of the movie will have no particular problem decoding the intent of the character, but cannot fail to also understand the character's foreignness.

Larry Latham

Harzer · Post by **Harzer** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:47 am

For three nights, we stayed in the hotel. This seems to work best (?only) with time expressions.

I'm too lazy to read what the other posts say about this statement but I can't agree.

For supper we sat in our caravan.
With our hands full, we couldn't move any faster.

I detect something innately contrastive in these sentences, which is what allows them to pass muster.

For three nights we stayed in the hotel, but for the rest of the time we .......
Although we had lunch in a four-star restaurant for supper ..... .
Emptyhanded, we would have managed fine but with our hands full ....

Any thoughts?

Harzer

revel · Post by **revel** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 7:06 am

Hey all!

What gets my goat about Yoda is that, after 800 years of training Jedis, he never bothered to learn or pick up their speech habits, but rather stubbornly insisted in his convoluted way of constructing sentences. Then he lowers his head in disappointment when he is not understood. I've always found him to be an arrogant, unflexible character, not a particularly good role-model as a teacher. I believe a good teacher is one who learns from his students, what is it that Yoda learns from Luke? Certainly not word order! As with many of the conventions used in Star Wars (looks like a spaghetti western to me), the inversion of his sentences seems to be just an easy way out thing upon which to base his character development. Listening to him do the same in the Spanish dubbed version just yesterday, where such flip-flopping of the word order has less effect, I found myself looking more at his latex ears than listening to his words.

Sorry for not addressing the main point in this thread, I am certainly not at all well versed in this topic and so keep my somewhat simplistic thoughts to myself. Since none of my students are of a level in which I would even allow them to put time expressions at the front of their sentences, I certainly will not be adding sticks to the fire of their confusion by talking about this fronting of prepositional phrases. And that my classes are oral, not written, restricts such use.

peace,
revel.