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I found the lyrics for the Jose *beep* song as

Love lift us up where we belong

in most sites.

Shouldn't it be Love lifts us up where we belong??

Thanks

Funny, ha,ha. The forum filter censored the name of Joe CCockker

I recall the 's' being kind of hard to hear, but yes, 'lifts' makes a whole lot more sense than 'lift' ("we're" most likely talking about love's effect, rather than '?asking love to lift us up where we belong' - imperative). Best to ask Joe himself what it should be - or is he dead? If he is, maybe checking song charts (the week's "Top 40" etc) from the period would give you the official title (which I believe is the same as the line is question here).

Wouldn't love lift us up be a subjunctive (i.e. it is desirable for love to lift us up).

Either way the song is total candyfloss and anyone associated with its production needs shooting.

lolwhites wrote:Wouldn't love lift us up be a subjunctive (i.e. it is desirable for love to lift us up).

Probably (<<sigh>>). I was talking to love as if it were a person. I think I'm spending too much time by myself, with only this PC for company - love lifts, elevators, PCs, anything non-human.

Either way the song is total candyfloss and anyone associated with its production needs shooting.

If you can't sing (or fancy doing a Ccockker impersonation), you should be thankful for it if you're ever dragged off to a karaoke bar (more likely in Japan than Spain, I guess).

I am now thinking it could be a case of ellipsis since the official title is written with no -s.

(Let) love lift us up where we belong.

No ellipsis. It's an invocation similar to "Give us this day our daily bread."

Or God save the Queen

An invocation, no less! See, a magical song, what did I tell you. Useful not only for karaoke, but also for stablilizing your trunk muscles (that is, humming it softly under your breath helps prevents you throwing your back out) when you go striding into the chicken-gutting factory where your boy/girlfriend works to sweep him/her off of his/her feet and carry him/her to your waiting Skoda (you've just graduated from a gruelling CELTA training course or something like that e.g. one of your fellow trainees couldn't live with himself after he failed to spot a subjunctive).

Best to ask Joe himself what it should be - or is he dead?

No, he's alive and well.

Joe C0cker actually played Pogon Stadium in Szczecin, Poland where I live and work and I went to that concert too. I can remember him singing it. I enjoyed it.

Either way the song is total candyfloss and anyone associated with its production needs shooting.

That's a bit strong isn't it? I happen to like that song very much. At least it sounds like it has real emotion in it. The same goes for Ottis Reading. I don't much like Celine Dion songs, which to me sound false and syruppy, but hey, live and let live.

In my opinion, this is an example of the present subjunctive, but one which is now usually fossilised. I think it is actually may-deletion:

(May) love lift us up where we belong.

However, since this was probably not a common expression when this way of forming the subjunctive was commonplace, "let deletion" is also possible. Note, though, that until recently, "let" meant the opposite of what it means today ie "hinder". The present subjunctive is usually formed by modal or transitive modal deletion in some form or other:

http://www.orlapubs.com/AL/L3.html
http://www.orlapubs.com/AL/L26.html
http://www.orlapubs.com/AL/L54.html
http://www.orlapubs.com/AL/L86.html

Another song which includes the present subjunctive is "Dream a little dream of me"

In your dreams whatever they be, dream a little dream of me

This again is probably formed by may-deletion:

In your dreams whatever they may be, dream a little dream of me.

You can find the past subjunctive in:
Villiage People's "YMCA"

I felt no man cared if I were alive

Abba's "Money Money Money"

If I got me a wealthy man
If I had a little money

And of course eponymously in Topol's "If I were a rich man."

Now I've probably revealed a little too much about the deep recesses of my record collection.

Use of these songs in class is not necessarily recommended. I won't stop you, though.

PS Trivia about Joe C0cker.
He played at Woodstock.
He used to be a gas fitter.
He said on "Parkinson" that he keeps re-registering with CORGI just in case. (I don't know if he still does.)
He has it in his contract that he must have a portion of shepherd's pie with baked beans after every concert.
The song, "I get by with a little help from my friends" is a cue to ice his beer backstage.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/backstaget ... cker1.html

What about an imperative? as in:

"Love" (please) "lift us up where we belong?"

Oh no, not the imperative again!

Oh no, not the imperative again!

God forbid! But be that as it may, do you all think subjuctive constructions are worth teaching or best kept as lexical items? They don't seem terribly productive, at least in my English.

Well, the fact that I for one didn't immediately recognize it as a subjunctive, and am tempted and am therefore now about to type 'I'll need to get back to you on that' (there, I typed it) could all imply that I have horrendous gaps in my grammatical knowledge (which generally, I do), but it could also mean that whatever grammary stuff I've been reading or using has been treating it as a marginal form, to be dealt with as lexical items on a functional rather than a purely structural basis (and how many courses, when they do include it, have subjunctives of this "invocative", "exhortative", "impersonal" and functionally "fuzzy" kind?).

his again is probably formed by may-deletion:
Quote:
In your dreams whatever they may be, dream a little dream of me.

Deletion-feletion! It's an imperative, as is the original example.

God forbid! But be that as it may, do you all think subjuctive constructions are worth teaching or best kept as lexical items? They don't seem terribly productive, at least in my English.

Present subjunctives are still very common in American English though.