"Nixon has been impeached",

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 5:32 pm

We can still say "Nixon has been impeached", even though he's dead.

Do you agree?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 6:28 pm

Absolutely.

"How many US Presidents have been impeached?"
"Well, er, Nixon has been impeached."

Any chance of Contextman coming out of retirement, or is he dead/impeached too?

Just out of interest, Metal, has a student just said "My teacher said you have to use past simple for dead people" by any chance?

sbourque · Post by **sbourque** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:01 pm

I'd say "Nixon was impeached." One use for the present perfect tense is to relate something to the present, right? So you'd ask "how many have been impeached (so far)", but you'd use the past tense for Nixon. Or you could ask "Has Dubya been impeached yet?"

My students understand the difference when we talk about movie stars: Demi Moore and Bruce Willis WERE married for...
Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher HAVE BEEN married for...

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:44 pm

Sbourque - your argument rests on the assumption that the focus is on Nixon. If we're talking about presidents who have been impeached at some time in history, the perfect aspect is fine as it would, indeed, relate to the present as it would have an "up to now" quality.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 9:56 pm

Your Bruce Willis/Demi Moore examples aren't so cut and dried either. Sure, you'd probably say BW and DM were married for X years but it'd still be possible to say BW and DM have been married i.e. at some point in their lives. It comes down to speaker perception/emphasis/choice, not whether or not it's still the case.

Now, sure, at lower levels I'd recommend that students use the structures in the way you describe and avoid the examples I've given, at least until they are a higher level. Telling students that structures are not used at all leads to the pointless (and avoidable) "My last teacher said you couldn't say that" argument a year or two down the line.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:04 am

metal56 wrote:We can still say "Nixon has been impeached", even though he's dead.

Do you agree?

It may be "correct" to say it, but it sounds funny to me. I'd say, "Nixon was impeached."

Have any presidents ever been impeached? Yes. Nixon was impeached.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:15 am

Your little Q&A about impeached presidents would be a lot more convincing, lolwhites, if:

a) more than just the one had ever been impeached (right?)
b) the answer was just 'Nixon' (I recall us giving woodcutter a hard time about the need to ellipt)
c) it wasn't just an example ("interesting" though it was) concocted especially for adding to the bubbling brew that is served up here on Dave's (see b), above).

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:32 am

I also liked that bit about 'it'd still be possible to say BW and DM have been married i.e. at some point in their lives' i.e. up until the point they got divorced and were no longer married i.e. up until the time people start saying they were married LOL. I mean, it's not like they have been married 2+ times, is it?

They are married and they've been married (n) years OR They've (been) remarried (n) times OR They are divorced/were married but divorced. Let's not forget seperation, estrangement etc either.

Macavity · Post by **Macavity** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:38 am

Actually, I don’t think Nixon was impeached – didn’t he resign before it went that far? Both Andrew Johnson (1868) and Bill Clinton (1999) were impeached. Or should I say, have both been impeached?!

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:44 am

OK OK I guess you could say 'Brucey and Demi have been married (before, didn't you know! And it's such a thrill they're getting back together again! That Kutcher lad just wasn't right for her)' if you were wierd and/or fancied starting a discussion on an AL forum.

Not sure who the hell this would end up supporting, but just thought I should post it:
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 4347#14347

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:47 am

Lorikeet, you're American, so be an angel and answer that Macavity chap, won't you?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:26 pm

Sorry if I seem a bit silly and below par here - I'm recovering from the mauling that I (rather than my actual ideas) received over on the Japan forum.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:21 am

lolwhites wrote:
Just out of interest, Metal, has a student just said "My teacher said you have to use past simple for dead people" by any chance?

Are the Dead ever dead, we ask?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:38 am

Which answer would you commonly give to the question below?

Which American presidents have been impeached?

1. Nixon was impeached (and so was ..., and ...etc.)

2. Nixon has been impeached (and so has ..., and ...etc.)

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:08 am

metal56 wrote:Which answer would you commonly give to the question below?

Which American presidents have been impeached?

1. Nixon was impeached (and so was ..., and ...etc.)

2. Nixon has been impeached (and so has ..., and ...etc.)

As I said, I'd use number 1. Sorry, number 2 still sounds funny.

Teacher Discussion Forums

"Nixon has been impeached",

"Nixon has been impeached",

Re: "Nixon has been impeached",