"To talk is good"
"It's good to talk"
"Talking is good"
"It's good talking"
The first where the "infinitive" is the subject.
In the second we seem to have an impersonal "it". A dummy subject. Has this taken over from the first sentence in common usage?
The third is clearly unobjectionable.
My problem is with the last. It doen't sound right. Is it "wrong" because that "it" is "talking"?
Or is it only something that is rarely said? After all it googles at a mere 620 compared with 200,000+ for "it's good to talk".
It's good talking.
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
If I remember correctly, we use the infinitive as a subject if we want to express something as an idea rather than something we actually do:
Playing baseball is great.
To play baseball is great.
To play baseball would be great.
To be or not to be.
So then your second example seems to me to be taking over in common usage from the third example.
I can even see scenarios where your fourth example would be correct:
It's been good talking to you like this.
It's good talking to you like this.
It's good talking.
Once again, the infinitive expresses the idea, while the gerund is more concrete:
It's good to talk.
It's good talking to you like this.
The rules are so complicated, yet they seem to have come about through common usage!
my site: www.roadtogrammar.com
Playing baseball is great.
To play baseball is great.
To play baseball would be great.
To be or not to be.
So then your second example seems to me to be taking over in common usage from the third example.
I can even see scenarios where your fourth example would be correct:
It's been good talking to you like this.
It's good talking to you like this.
It's good talking.
Once again, the infinitive expresses the idea, while the gerund is more concrete:
It's good to talk.
It's good talking to you like this.
The rules are so complicated, yet they seem to have come about through common usage!
my site: www.roadtogrammar.com
-
JuanTwoThree
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:30 am
- Location: Spain
That subtlety you describe between the "to....." and the ".....ing" is clearly there, however difficult it may be to put your finger on:
To win the lottery has always been my dream (Or "It's always been.......)
vs
Winning the lottery has always been my dream.
This is born out by the Google results' being reversed with "It's been good + talk" because in this case "talking" beats "to talk", presumably because the idea "I've been talking to you and it's been good" is stronger. Though "It's been good to talk to you" has clearly been used by people who have just been speaking (metaphorically). Which doesn't help.
I don't think any of this is the issue with "It's always been my dream winning the lottery". Which sounds wrong or clumsy or something. Perhaps because you don't say "I've been winning the lottery".
I also think that there's a feeling that the impersonal "it" shouldn't get too close in meaning to an "ing". We seem happy with "It's worth doing" because "It" is clearly "The thing". But there are other cases such as "It's easy running up that mountain" which is too much like "He's tall my brother"
To win the lottery has always been my dream (Or "It's always been.......)
vs
Winning the lottery has always been my dream.
This is born out by the Google results' being reversed with "It's been good + talk" because in this case "talking" beats "to talk", presumably because the idea "I've been talking to you and it's been good" is stronger. Though "It's been good to talk to you" has clearly been used by people who have just been speaking (metaphorically). Which doesn't help.
I don't think any of this is the issue with "It's always been my dream winning the lottery". Which sounds wrong or clumsy or something. Perhaps because you don't say "I've been winning the lottery".
I also think that there's a feeling that the impersonal "it" shouldn't get too close in meaning to an "ing". We seem happy with "It's worth doing" because "It" is clearly "The thing". But there are other cases such as "It's easy running up that mountain" which is too much like "He's tall my brother"
Oh, Juan this stuff will do your head in if you think about it too much. Grammar is full of things that don't make sense.
However, I can still catch a difference between your two sentences:
my site: www.roadtogrammar.com
However, I can still catch a difference between your two sentences:
I think you would say the second sentence to show that you think you have a realistic chance or after you have actually won the lottery. The first sentence makes it sound more remote.To win the lottery has always been my dream (Or "It's always been.......)
vs
Winning the lottery has always been my dream.
Wouldn't this be colloquial, non-standard usage? I don't think you would find this written very much. However, I have a feeling you may prove me wrong.It's easy running up that mountain
my site: www.roadtogrammar.com
-
JuanTwoThree
- Posts: 947
- Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 11:30 am
- Location: Spain
I agree with you about the subtle difference though a lottery winner might still say "It's always been my dream to " . It's more to do with perceptions than facts.
However, I disagree with "Grammar is full of things that don't make sense". There's actually very little that doesn't make sense. English is often criticised for having a rule and its exceptions when in fact it needs a bettter rule. By the same token it's too easy to say "There's no rule about that" : there usually is. Though "rule" is hardly the right word, "underlying order" ??
However, I disagree with "Grammar is full of things that don't make sense". There's actually very little that doesn't make sense. English is often criticised for having a rule and its exceptions when in fact it needs a bettter rule. By the same token it's too easy to say "There's no rule about that" : there usually is. Though "rule" is hardly the right word, "underlying order" ??