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Inclusive or exclusive?
Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 11:06 pm
by metal56
Does the sentence below include or exclude 1974 as a part of the period when Shelly lived in London?
"Shelly had been living in London in 1974."
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:05 am
by Metamorfose
If I have been interpreting such phrases well, I think it includes 1974.
José
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 2:49 am
by tigertiger
Metamorfose wrote:If I have been interpreting such phrases well, I think it includes 1974.
José
At some point in 1974, but not necessarily all of 1974
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 5:54 am
by Superhal
Includes, same as tigertiger.
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:56 am
by Metamorfose
At some point in 1974, but not necessarily all of 1974
But then wouldn't we need more context to figure more things out? The sentence by itself doesn't tell whether it was all 1974 or just some time in 1974.
José
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:06 am
by metal56
Superhal wrote:Includes, same as tigertiger.
I saw the original as "in 1974, the state of affairs was that Shelly had been living in London, but was now (1974) elsewhere.
Written another way, it would look like this:
"In 1974, when I met her, Shelly had been living in London, but was forced to leave it due to financial problems."
I saw 1974 as excluded from the time she had lived in London - or at least the culmination.
How about these? Is May included in the period in Paris?
"In May of that year, he had been working in Paris, but was then moved to Bogota."
"May 1974: he had been working in Paris, but was then moved to Bogota."
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:12 pm
by tigertiger
It is a bit like saying I was in school yesterday.
Not all of yesterday perhaps.
The exact definition of how much of yesterday I was in school is irrelevant. It is just some time.
It is also refereing to a past event and so -
"in 1974, the state of affairs was that Shelly had been living in London, but was now (1974) elsewhere." does not make sense to me.
I would expect this to be a quote from some time after 1974.
If the quote was from some time after the event, but still in 1974, I would expect to see "earlier this year she had..." or "in May she had..."
I saw 1974 as excluded from the time she had lived in London - or at least the culmination. is also incorrect IMHO.
This could be expressed as "apart from (some time in) 1974, she had lived..."
"In May of that year, he had been working in Paris, but was then moved to Bogota."
"May 1974: he had been working in Paris, but was then moved to Bogota."
This works, he was moved to Bogota some time after he was in Paris in May 1974. It may not have been in June. We can assume the speaker does not know the exact date. But the speaker does know where he was for at least part of May. He could even have been moved later in May.
Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:53 pm
by metal56
In 1974, the state of affairs was that Shelly had been living in London, but was then (1974) elsewhere.
How do folks here see the difference between:
Shelly had been living in London.
Shelly was living in London.