Will II the revenge

Metamorfose · Post by **Metamorfose** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:59 pm

I remember full well the thread about will sometime ago and the fuss it causes.

A fellow teacher asked me this, according to them, it is in a book made localy:

I don't want to go to the party because :

( ) I wont Know anybody

( ) I am not going to know anybody.

First they ask if the right one would be "I don't know anybody."

For sure that would be the natural choice but the book doesn't have this opition

I think (be) going to is impossible in such an utterance, but what can we say about this will? It's not habitual, it's about something the speaker doesn't have factual knowledge, but do you spot yourselves saying this:

I don't want to go to the party because I will know anybody

And even so, how frequenty is it to be in a book for students?

José

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:52 pm

In answer to your first question, I think both will and going to could be used by native speakers but will is the more likely option and probably the one the question writer had in mind.

In this context, I would take will to mean given what I know, I expect/deduce... (that I won't know anybody). After all, the speaker must have a reason to think that he or she won't know anyone. This contrasts with I don't know anybody, where the speaker states it as a fact, not a deduction; maybe he/she is watching the party through the window.

Note also that in this example might not necessarily be referring to the future - the party could be going on now and the sentence would still make sense.

I'm assuming that I don't want to go to the party because I will know anybody was a typo.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:29 pm

Here's my "me too" post. I agree with lolwhites.

rusmeister · Post by **rusmeister** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:31 pm

There are fairly clear and specific rules that ESL students must learn to correctly use will or be going to. The use of the Present Simple(Indefinite) ("I don't know anybody") is inappropriate in this context.
This also applies to some/any/no and the compounds: someone/anyone/nowhere etc.

If you don't know the rules you're just guessing. And so is the student. My recommendation is to get a reasonably good ESL grammar supplement (I recommend Round-Up by Virginia Evans (nee Vlachou-Some Hungarian-type name) by Pearson/Longman) and really learn the rules of grammar as they need to be learned by a foreigner. Then you can teach them, even if you're only staying one step ahead of the students.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 5:46 pm

There may be specific guidelines that learners should be aware of, I'm not sure about "rules". Real-world English has a way of confounding the grammar books and confusing the students the moment they set foot in an English-speaking country, especially if they've been encouraged to treat these "rules" as gospel.

Why you don't think I don't know anyone is appropriate, and which context do you mean by "this context"? I thought I'd given a pretty clear context where I don't know... is appropriate.

Metamorfose · Post by **Metamorfose** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 1:37 am

lolwhite thanks for your explanation, I didn't think (be) going to could be used, but as we know, the decision is ultimately on the language user and the native will pick up the best option they think fits the situation best.

And indeed it was a typo, I won't edit the first post. The sentence I meant is obviously: I don't want to go to the party because I won't know anybody.

José

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:29 am

Metamorfose wrote:
I don't want to go to the party because :

( ) I am not going to know anybody.

I think (be) going to is impossible in such an utterance, but what can we say about this will? It's not habitual, it's about something the speaker doesn't have factual knowledge, but do you spot yourselves saying this:

José

Do you think a speaker could say "because I know I'm not going to meet anyone"?

If not, why not?

Metamorfose · Post by **Metamorfose** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:52 am

Indeed metal I first thought I don't want to go to the party because I'm not going to know anyone wouldn't be possible or at least "normal"; it was a very narrow thinking of mine, I admite that, now... one might say that I have evidence from previous experience to say so, being very Lewis-oriented in my reasoning.

Now for sure I don't see and never saw any problem with a sentence like (I don't want to go to the party) because I know (I've got a hunch/something tells me that) I'm not going to meet anyone.

José

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:01 am

Metamorfose wrote:
Now for sure I don't see and never saw any problem with a sentence like (I don't want to go to the party) because I know (I've got a hunch/something tells me that) I'm not going to meet anyone.

José

Thank goodness.

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