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Words genuinely believed to be English.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 11:10 am
by JuanTwoThree
I'm curious to know how many languages have "made up" English. In German "Ein Handy" is a mobile phone and "Ein Beamer" is a slide or video projector. Many Germans believe these to be borrowings from English.
"Footing" is Spanish for jogging. My Spanish students are surprised to discover that it's not the same in English.
Do all languages do this? I believe, for example, that cul-de-sac is not really French at all. It's probably rude too.
False friends and direct translations from the L2 are not quite the same thing.
Nor are those truncated words which languages that put adjectives after nouns tend to adapt: el super(market), le self(service), Les/Los Rolling (Stones) etc These were English once after all.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 1:02 pm
by Stephen Jones
In Catalan 'fer footing' appears in 'Bearn' written in 1960 but referring to the Paris of the late 19th century.
It appears to pre-date jogging, which only came into vogue in the 70s. Presumably it was considered the English word for 'faire une promenade' or in Spanish 'dar un paseo'.
The Saudis are insistent that the GMC camper that goes by the name of "Suburban" is really a "SuperVan" and any attempts to pronounce the word properly or explain its true etymology is met with hilarity as the delirous crazings of a "Khawaja". They also refuse to accept that 'Benzine" is the Arabic for petrol or gasoline, but seriously think it is an English word.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:14 pm
by abufletcher
The Japanese seem to be world champions at inventing imaginary English terms -- as well as using ordinary terms in bizarre and often comic ways:
http://www.jun-gifts.com/others/japangl ... nglish.htm
http://www.engrish.com/
Also the PHS (Personal Handy-Phone System) was invented in Japan (apparently in 1989) so it's not too surprising that that Germans adapted this bit of Japanglish:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_H ... one_System
http://e-words.jp/w/PHS.html
A couple of my favorite mock-English words from the Gulf are "humburger" and "A&W root drink"
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:33 pm
by abufletcher
Here's one of my all-time favorite examples of "You really should know what things mean before you buy them":
http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?image ... 1999-02-23
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 2:38 pm
by Metamorfose
A typical case in Brazilian Portuguese is the word outdoor.
Outdoor here is what English speakers call billboard (people round here pronounce it as close as possible to the way English speakers do.)
José
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 5:44 pm
by wjserson
I've heard French babyboomers say "Les Stones Rolling" more often myself.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 9:26 pm
by Andrew Patterson
Juan wrote:
Do all languages do this? I believe, for example, that cul-de-sac is not really French at all. It's probably rude too.
The French do say cul-de-sac, although they also say
impasse As far as I know, it isn't rude.
Double entendres are rude but here it is different - the French for
double entendre is
double sens.
Posted: Wed May 17, 2006 10:11 pm
by JuanTwoThree
Cul means bum. But there seem to be plenty of French hits for cul-de-sac so I must be mistaken.
Examples of where English has invented a "foreign" word?
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:02 am
by Andrew Patterson
I'm afraid I don't speek French. Babel fish translates
cul as
bottom and
cul-de-sac as, not surprisingly,
cul-de-sac. On-line etymology dictionary
http://www.etymonline.com says of
cul-de-sac
1738, as an anatomical term, from Fr., lit. "bottom of a sack," from L. culus "bottom" (see sack). Application to streets and alleys is from 1800.
So, naturally, I looked up
sack which said:
sack (n.2) Look up sack at Dictionary.com
"a dismissal from work," 1825, from sack (n.1), perhaps from the notion of the worker going off with his tools in a bag; the original formula was to give (someone) the sack. It is attested earlier in Fr. (on luy a donné son sac, 17c.) and M.Du. (iemand den zak geven). The verb is recorded from 1841.
sack (v.1) Look up sack at Dictionary.com
"to plunder," 1549, from M.Fr. sac, in the phrase mettre à sac "put it in a bag," a military leader's command to his troops to plunder a city (parallel to It. sacco, with the same range of meaning), from V.L. *saccare "to plunder," originally "to put plundered things into a sack," from L. saccus "bag" (see sack (n.1)). The notion is probably of putting booty in a bag. This is the root of the verb in the U.S. football sense (1969).
sack (n.1) Look up sack at Dictionary.com
"large bag," O.E. sacc (W.Saxon), sec (Mercian), sæc (Old Kentish) "large cloth bag," also "sackcloth," from P.Gmc. *sakkiz (cf. M.Du. sak, O.H.G. sac, O.N. sekkr, but Goth. sakkus probably is directly from Gk.), an early borrowing from L. saccus (cf. O.Fr. sac, Sp. saco, It. sacco), from Gk. sakkos, from Semitic (cf. Heb. saq "sack"). The wide spread of the word is probably due to the story of Joseph. Slang meaning "bunk, bed" is from 1825, originally nautical. The verb meaning "go to bed" is recorded from 1946.
So I think it just means bottom of a sack. I imagine that the French word
cul must have the double meaning that
bottom has in English. It depends on context unless deliberately used as a double entendre. Maybe Bevis and Butthead could find a double entendre in
bottom of the sack, but most people wouldn't.
Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 9:49 am
by JuanTwoThree
The point, inasmuch as there is one, being that French and Catalan cul, Spanish culo and Latin culus, mean firstly the buttock area and by analogy the lower region of other things: "the a*se-end". Whereas "bottom" by contrast starts by meaning the lower part of anything and then comes prudishly and euphemistically to mean the aforementioned butttock area also. According to
www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_profanity#Etymology_5
which should not be read by the easily shocked, the somewhat robust quality of the original word is at its weakest in French. My recollection of driving in France is that they favour "voie sans issue" over "cul-de-sac", perhaps because of the earthy origins of the latter. But I really don't know.
Anyway, whatever. It's genuine French and wasn't invented by English speakers.
Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 8:39 am
by Andrew Patterson
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 7:11 am
by mesmark
JuanTwoThree wrote:Examples of where English has invented a "foreign" word?
I've been trying to think of something and I'm not sure, but this may count.
We use the term 'kamekazi' to mean reckless. The real Japanese word means lucky wind, or literally 'god's wind.' It was a word that came about when Japan was having one of many troubles with China. China was trying to invade Japan and for some reason a strong wind (maybe a storm) haulted China's attack. It was often used to mean 'victorious momentum' but hasn't been used much since they also used it for the fighter pilots in WW2.
Posted: Sat May 20, 2006 8:10 am
by Andrew Patterson
Mesmark wrote:
I've been trying to think of something and I'm not sure, but this may count.
We use the term 'kamekazi' to mean reckless. The real Japanese word means lucky wind, or literally 'god's wind.' It was a word that came about when Japan was having one of many troubles with China. China was trying to invade Japan and for some reason a strong wind (maybe a storm) haulted China's attack. It was often used to mean 'victorious momentum' but hasn't been used much since they also used it for the fighter pilots in WW2.
As far as I know the word "kamekazi" is used only for a suicide attack where the purpetrators actually intend to die whether or not they in fact do. This can be used attributively in English to any suicide attack not just to one with an aeroplane but I've never heard it used to talk about mere recklessness. It is strange to note that it wasn't used much to refer to the sept 11 attacks.
Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 3:01 pm
by sbourque
Example of made-up foreign word in English: "chop suey"?
I always heard that the dish itself, not only the name, was invented in the US. In my time in China, I never saw it on a menu, but then I wouldn't have recognized the Chinese characters anyway
Posted: Sun May 21, 2006 4:02 pm
by lolwhites
What about matador in Spanish? In English it's used to mean "bullfighter", but I never heard the term when I lived in Spain except to refer to an early Almodovar movie; the term I always heard was torero. And isn't toreador another term mistakenly used by English speakers?
