[couldn't + Vo] vs. [couldn't have + V3]

oceanbreeze · Post by **oceanbreeze** » Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:49 pm

OK, so it seems that noone could explain the difference between "forget" and "forget about"!

Well, can anyone tell me how they would explain the difference between the following pairs of sentences?

I couldn't wait anylonger
I couldn't have waited anylonger

I couldn't eat anymore
I couldn't have eaten anymore

Amy_H · Post by **Amy_H** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:16 am

Hi

Before anybody gets into possible differences, it should be mentioned that "any longer" is always written as two words. "No one" is also written as two words (or possibly hyphenated).

And now a question:

Did you really mean to write anymore (one word, AmE usage) or did you possibly mean to write any more (two words)?

Amy

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:59 am

oceanbreeze wrote:OK, so it seems that noone could explain the difference between "forget" and "forget about"!

Well, can anyone tell me how they would explain the difference between the following pairs of sentences?

I couldn't wait anylonger
I couldn't have waited anylonger

I couldn't eat anymore
I couldn't have eaten anymore

This looks like the sort of question that comes up all the time in this forum yet for some reason,
I don't think I can find a similar post.
I'll give it a go.
I'll start with the "have" form in the first pair because it's easier:
"I couldn't have waited any longer" is implicitly in the past. It probably refers to waiting for a person who you have arranged to meet. You waited and ran out out of time.
"I couldn't wait any longer," is more ambiguous, it could mean the same as "I couldn't have waited any longer", or it could refer to a situation where you gave in to temptation such as starting to eat before everyone arrived.

"I couldn't have eaten any more," means that at a particular meal in the past,
you ate so much that it was impossible to eat more.
"I couldn't eat any more," could mean the same as
"I couldn't have eaten any more", or
it could be a refusal to eat more food that has just been offered to you because you are full.

Mr Creosote says this in the film "The Meaning of Life," by the way.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:04 pm

There's nothing special here - the difference between the forms is the same difference you always get depending on whether or not the Perfect aspect is employed.

Anrew quite rightly points out that I couldn't eat any more might be used to apply to a present situation, whereas I couldn't have... is retrospective and therefore will only apply to a past situation (at least, in any context I can think of)

A: Would you like some cake?
B: No thanks
A: Are you sure?
B: Yes, really?
A: Ah, go on!
B: No, really, I couldn't eat any more.
A: Go on, go on, go on...

It's harder to think of a present context for I couldn't wait any longer but not impossible:

I'm sorry but I have to go. The train is about to leave so I couldn't wait any longer even if I wanted to.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 12:21 pm

Maitre D: And finally, monsieur, a wafer-thin mint.
Mr Creosote: No.
Maitre D: Oh sir! It's only a tiny little thin one.
Mr Creosote: No. F**k off - I'm full... [Belches]
Maitre D: Oh sir... it's only wafer thin.
Mr Creosote: Look - I couldn't eat another thing. I'm absolutely stuffed. B*****r off.
Maitre D: Oh sir, just... just one...
Mr Creosote: Oh all right. Just one.
Maitre D: Just the one, sir... voila... bon appetit...

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:42 pm

One useful way of looking at it, which everybody who has ever seen this type of film or programme, which is just about everybody, can understand is is that these modal perfects are "But Inspector".

Everybody is in the sitting room and the Scotland Yard Inspector is explaining his theory about "Who did it?". The various suspects are sitting around expaining, and this is the important part, after the event "post hoc", why it couldn't have been them. They are looking back to the past from the perspective of the present. Knowing what they know now. Perfectively.

But Inspector, I couldn't have eaten any more because there was still some cake on the plate.

But Inspector, I couldn't have waited any longer because the shop closed at 5.30.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:54 pm

Good point, Juan.

oceanbreeze · Post by **oceanbreeze** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:46 pm

Amy_H wrote:Hi

Before anybody gets into possible differences, it should be mentioned that "any longer" is always written as two words. "No one" is also written as two words (or possibly hyphenated).

And now a question:

Did you really mean to write anymore (one word, AmE usage) or did you possibly mean to write any more (two words)?

Amy

Amy, ever so sorry about the mistake! Of course, I meant no one, any more, any longer

Thanks to everyone for their responses. I suppose this an example of the many wonderful ways in which the English language can torture you!

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[couldn't + Vo] vs. [couldn't have + V3]

[couldn't + Vo] vs. [couldn't have + V3]

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