Vernacular chauvinism.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 3:54 pm

A strange contradiction.

"Two reports appeared recently in my newspaper that left me bewildered. The first said the Karnataka government still hasn't decided to rescind its ban on English in primary schools despite huge popular pressure. The second – a Karnataka minister, after a busy visit to China, announced that "members of the standing committee of the Jiangsu Provincial People's Congress wanted the help of the Karnataka government in teaching English in its primary schools." This was in pursuit of its objective to make every Chinese literate in English by the 2008 Olympics."

http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=5675

............

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 7:32 pm

There are quite a few vernacular chauvinists here in the Basque Country. They annoy me. They want my child to learn Basque and forget Castillano.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:11 pm

They want my child to learn Basque and forget Castillano.

How totally unreasonable. If the idea catches on the English will start demanding that schoolchildren in England study in English

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:17 pm

There is no contradiction at all in Karnataka's stance.

It does not ban the teaching of English in Primary schools. It merely insists that Kannada be the first language of instruction.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:25 am

Stephen Jones wrote:There is no contradiction at all in Karnataka's stance.

It does not ban the teaching of English in Primary schools. It merely insists that Kannada be the first language of instruction.

As far as I understand the word "ban", that is a ban on teaching English.

Bangalore hit by English ban in schools

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/5f5bfade-4cec-1 ... e2340.html

...........

Across Karnataka, some 273,000 students already enrolled in elementary schools (classes 1 to 5) have been told not to study English, and switch over to Kannada.

The ban on English has been enforced in 2,100 private elementary schools across the state. And 1,440 such schools are located in Bangalore.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2006/sep/27s ... &file=.htm

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:09 am

You've been misinformed. The ban is on teaching in English, not teaching English.

Karnataka introduces English at Grade 3. They declined to start at Grade 1 because of a lack of teachers, not through any objection to teaching English at that level.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:28 am

Stephen Jones wrote:You've been misinformed. The ban is on teaching in English, not teaching English.

Karnataka introduces English at Grade 3. They declined to start at Grade 1 because of a lack of teachers, not through any objection to teaching English at that level.

There seems to be a lot of misinformed people then:

"Why Karnataka is shutting down English schools

Do schools teaching English power Bangalore's prowess in global information technology? Karnataka Chief Minister H D Kumaraswamy does not think so.

More than 100,000 English-speaking children in India's Silicon Valley have been asked by the Kumaraswamy government to switch to schools offering lessons exclusively in Kannada.

Across Karnataka, some 273,000 students already enrolled in elementary schools (classes 1 to 5) have been told not to study English, and switch over to Kannada."

And, do you not think that teaching in English is also the teaching of English in some cases?

http://www.ciaokids.org/education_ka.htm

Could you link us to your source for this comment?

They declined to start at Grade 1 because of a lack of teachers, not through any objection to teaching English at that level.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:34 am

Stephen Jones wrote:
They want my child to learn Basque and forget Castillano.
How totally unreasonable. If the idea catches on the English will start demanding that schoolchildren in England study in English

So, do you think my daughter should only learn, or be offered, Basque?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:41 am

"Love for the mother tongue, or even for the State official language, is not chauvinism unless it is professed in a manner that disregards the fate of millions."

From Secular India news web.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:44 am

I think the Kartanaka position on English is more of BJP politics, based on the opinion of those few politicians and their henchmen; purely some sort of self-interest: they want some cause to push their party and make themselves seem wise and important. Going by those links, people are not happy with what is being thrust on them.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:48 am

metal56 wrote:"Love for the mother tongue, or even for the State official language, is not chauvinism unless it is professed in a manner that disregards the fate of millions."

From Secular India news web.

Absolutely!
But in the case being discussed here, it is not as much love for the mother-tongue as it is dirty politics.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:10 am

This dicussion reminds me of an article published in El Mundo by James Petras in 1999, in which he claimed that Spanish speakers in California got a better deal than Spanish speakers in Catalonia, because the former had politicians fighting for their rights, whiile the latter didn't. Basically he compared the Catalan monolinguistas with American right wingers who push for English-only teaching.

It's been reproduced here. It's probably a bit out of date and it's in Spanish, but an interesting read nonetheless.
http://www.rebelion.org/petras/bilinguismo.htm

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:43 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:
metal56 wrote:"Love for the mother tongue, or even for the State official language, is not chauvinism unless it is professed in a manner that disregards the fate of millions."

From Secular India news web.
Absolutely!
But in the case being discussed here, it is not as much love for the mother-tongue as it is dirty politics.

Yes, that also happens here in the Basque Country. Many do love the mother-tongue, but others also insist on its use in all areas of life here.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:47 am

Dear metal 56

If you read your own links you would not be misinformed.

Read both articles down to the bottom. It will make it clear that what is being referred to is English medium teaching and not the teaching of English per se.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:56 am

lolwhites wrote: Basically he compared the Catalan monolinguistas with American right wingers who push for English-only teaching.

Good comparison. Yet, in Catalonia one has better chances of public employment if one speaks Catalan*. I would think that in a contemporary USA, one would also need Spanish if wanting to become more employable.

"Catalans have a new "duty" to know how to speak Catalan. It is not a hard language for native Spanish speakers to learn, but that does not mean everyone wants to. A working knowledge of Catalan is now, however, almost obligatory for public employment."

"I came across a study by a Canadian statistician that put a person's chance of finding a job in Catalonia at 5% lower if they did not speak Catalan. That figure will jump. "

http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/gil ... lonia.html

As I understand it, the vernacular chauvinism committed by the governments in some Indian states will leave their citizens less employable in the future.
.......

We should also remember that Franco, in the main, prohibited the use of Basque and Catalan.