infinitive vs. the gerund in "I like < >"

Jimbobob · Post by **Jimbobob** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:34 am

Does either have a semantic difference to you? Either sound strange in your variant? Which is your default?

I like to play soccer.

I like playing soccer.

I like to draw.

I like drawing.

I like drinking pop.

I like to drink pop.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:14 am

The -ing form is my default.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:45 am

Mine is the "to". Didn't we have a thread somewhere about the difference?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:55 am

We did indeed. Basically there's little or no difference between the two most of the time. However, when the -ing form denotes the activity itself as well as the act of doing it, there's a potential ambiguity:

I like playing football - no ambiguity
I like cycling - watching or doing? We don't know. Same for skiing, fishing, dancing...

My favourite example is the wheelchair user who goes to watch the ballet because she likes dancing.

Jimbobob · Post by **Jimbobob** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:47 am

Ok one more follow up question, and the reason I asked this in the first place:

Do any of THESE sound strange to your ear?

I hate playing soccer

I hate to play soccer

I hate drawing

I hate to draw

I hate drinking pop

I hate to drink pop

I was thinking down the line for a rough curriculum I've put together for some true English beginners, and how I was going to introduce gerunds and infinitives in these types of constructions. To me, infinitive or gerund sounds the same and has the same semantic meaning in the "I like < >" construction. I can definitely see where the ambiguity would be though lolwhites - that's a good example - any chance you could give me a link to the past discussion, or what I should search for?

But here's my problem - to my ear, the infinitive doesn't sound correct at all in the "I hate < >" construction. "I hate to drink pop" or "I hate to play soccer" just sounds wrong. I'm pretty sure this is just a 'me' thing, and that it's perfectly acceptable, but just want some second opinions.

So, basically does the infinitive sound wrong in the "I hate <>" construction to anyone else?

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:58 am

Not to me.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:50 am

Since when would one do anything other than drink/"be" drinking pop? > I like/hate pop.

That is, I reckon it'll help your curriculum if you select the to-V or -ing form only for those contexts where it'll be there for a good reason.

Hmm, then there's also sentences such as, 'I don't (like...) play rugby' ("full stop") - 'it's dangerous'. (I could also say, 'I didn't like playing rugby at school on those cold winter mornings').

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:55 am

Jimbobob wrote:
But here's my problem - to my ear, the infinitive doesn't sound correct at all in the "I hate < >" construction. "I hate to drink pop" or "I hate to play soccer" just sounds wrong. I'm pretty sure this is just a 'me' thing, and that it's perfectly acceptable, but just want some second opinions.

So, basically does the infinitive sound wrong in the "I hate <>" construction to anyone else?

Many times, to my ears, the "hate to..." construction sounds as if there is compulsion involved. It sounds as if the speaker is obliged to do something.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:01 am

Well I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are a lot of us who hate to use "hate and V+ing" and like to use the infinitive instead.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:18 am

My variant doesn't use -ing when talking about convenience, prefers -ing when talking about genuine pleasure but accepts that "to" doesn't necessarily mean only convenience:

I like shaving in the morning= enjoy (only).

I like to shave in in the morning=the same, perhaps.

Though I don't really enjoy it it's preferable= I like to shave in the morning NOT I like shaving in the morning.

"I hate (to have to) to tell you" is slightly different. It's also what you would say if you have never done it before: "I hate to tell you that your dog has died".

"I hate telling you your dog has died" (Not again!). though I can see that ""I hate to tell you that your dog has died" can mean this as well.

I blame grammar books. They find it much tidier to say that because A means one thing, then B means another, when in fact B can mean A as well.

So, far too many books conclude that because "I needn't have done it" means "I did it" so therefore "I didn't need to do it" means "I didn't". While the first is true, the second can also mean the first :

Are you trying to tell me I didn't need to go to the bank? I wasted a whole hour there.

Lots of British grammar books conclude that "I like to shave in the morning" only means "It's convenient for me" because " I like shaving in the morning" doesn't.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:11 pm

Lorikeet wrote:Well I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are a lot of us who hate to use "hate and V+ing" and like to use the infinitive instead.

Who are the "us" above?

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:30 pm

metal56 wrote:
Lorikeet wrote:Well I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are a lot of us who hate to use "hate and V+ing" and like to use the infinitive instead.
Who are the "us" above?

I suppose you figure I'm the only native speaker who thinks this way?

Edit: I asked some teachers at school. Maybe it's a California thing--they use the infinitive too.

Jimbobob · Post by **Jimbobob** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 4:09 am

fluffyhamster wrote: That is, I reckon it'll help your curriculum if you select the to-V or -ing form only for those contexts where it'll be there for a good reason.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to do just that, and stick with my own default to start.

Lorikeet wrote: Well I hate to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are a lot of us who hate to use "hate and V+ing" and like to use the infinitive instead. Wink

I like it, I like it a lot

And good, I knew it was just me.

metal56 wrote: Many times, to my ears, the "hate to..." construction sounds as if there is compulsion involved. It sounds as if the speaker is obliged to do something.

JuanTwoThree wrote: My variant doesn't use -ing when talking about convenience, prefers -ing when talking about genuine pleasure but accepts that "to" doesn't necessarily mean only convenience:

Everyone seems to agree on the -ing form as a statement of pleasure, hatred, whatever, but most feel that the 'to' form can take on extra meanings depending on context. Perhaps this is because of forms such as "have TO <>" or "need TO <>", which only take infinitives, so we've tied some extra meaning to the infinitive form. Thanks for everyone's opinions - much appreciated.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:42 am

I suppose you figure I'm the only native speaker who thinks this way?

Not at all. I'm sure some/many do, but who are they and what is their variant?

thethinker · Post by **thethinker** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:31 am

With like/love I always thought that using the infinitive suggests that you actually do the activity, and would normally be accompanied by some kind of time phrase (e.g. I like to watch the TV while I eat my lunch). The -ing form, however, suggests a general preference, but doesn't suggest that I actually dothe activity (e.g. I live watching TV while I eat my lunch, but don't normally get the chance). Or is that what you're saying the grammar books have wrong?