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Zero subject relatives (ZSRs)
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:05 am
by metal56
Are these constructions acceptable in your variant of Standard English?
I have this friend >goes hunting regularly.
There's a tree >sits at the top of the hill.
It was Dave >did it
Anybody >does that ought to be shot!
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:17 am
by lolwhites
To me it's OK in speech but not writing.
What about you?
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:20 am
by metal56
lolwhites wrote:To me it's OK in speech but not writing.
Why is that?
What about you?
I use them regularly.
In fact I prefer such as:
I know a woman>'ll help you with that.
to:
I know a woman who will help you with that.
I know a woman who'll help you with that.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:26 am
by Anuradha Chepur
The British also make it a point to teach the structure to kids, I suppose.
The first song in the song casette of a British publication (Linguaphone) for children is: "There was a farmer had a dog, and Bingo was his name ho. . ." This publication is aimed at non-native speakers with a worldwide market.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:18 pm
by metal56
Anuradha Chepur wrote:The British also make it a point to teach the structure to kids, I suppose.
The first song in the song casette of a British publication (Linguaphone) for children is: "There was a farmer had a dog, and Bingo was his name ho. . ." This publication is aimed at non-native speakers with a worldwide market.
Not sure what your point is there. ??
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:12 pm
by Anuradha Chepur
No point at all, just an observation.
What do you have to say about it?
And would you go about teaching this structure?
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:43 pm
by lolwhites
Why is that?
Dunno, I just wince a little when I see it written on a page.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:01 pm
by metal56
Anuradha Chepur wrote:
What do you have to say about it?
I have no problem with such constructions - I use some of them myself.
And would you go about teaching this structure?
That would depend on my students' needs.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:03 pm
by metal56
lolwhites wrote:Why is that?
Dunno, I just wince a little when I see it written on a page.
How about this?
See you Sunday.
Does that make you wince?
former AE speaker
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:50 pm
by revel
Hey all.
As a former AE speaker (I presently only speak ESL when I speak English), I found all of the examples terribly incorrect, both spoken and written, they are all missing "who" or "that". Having never spoken BE, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when those sentences are accepted by others, but I would have corrected them in my students' speech or writing before having read this thread.
See you Sunday is a string of sounds that we often use to say goodbye as well as to establish the next time we'll be seeing one another. It's a longer version of "see you" and yet a shorter version of "I'll see you". I say such to my students at the end of every class. Yet, if I were saying goodbye to my boss and reminding him that we have made plans to see one another on Sunday, I might just say "I'll see you on Sunday" just to maintain the distances (don't what to be too chummy with my boss.)
peace,
revel.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:58 pm
by metal56
As a former AE speaker (I presently only speak ESL when I speak English), I found all of the examples terribly incorrect, both spoken and written, they are all missing "who" or "that".
How about:
It's just the kids have grown, you see?
It was Danny said you were coming, not Stan.
There were people all round him.
Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:16 pm
by lolwhites
How about this?
See you Sunday.
Does that make you wince?
Not especially, but I'd still expect to be more likely to hear it or read it in an email from a friend than see it written in a letter. What if you received formal letter saying
We look forward to seeing you Thursday? To me that'd be a mix of registers.
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:26 am
by Lorikeet
[quote="lolwhites"
Not especially, but I'd still expect to be more likely to hear it or read it in an email from a friend than see it written in a letter. What if you received formal letter saying We look forward to seeing you Thursday? To me that'd be a mix of registers.[/quote]
You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:19 pm
by lolwhites
You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?
We look forward to seeing you on Thursday
For me, "See you Thursday" smacks of spoken language between people who know each other quite well.
Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:41 pm
by Lorikeet
lolwhites wrote:
You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?
We look forward to seeing you on Thursday
For me, "See you Thursday" smacks of spoken language between people who know each other quite well.
Interesting. For me, the "We look forward to seeing you..." part makes it formal enough, although I can certainly agree to the "on" in the sentence. It just didn't sound incorrect without it.