Active form: passive meaning

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:41 pm

Which one of each set of examples would you find yourself commonly using?

There are dishes to do.
There are dishes to be done.

These apples are ready to eat.
These apples are ready for eating.
These apples are ready to be eaten.

The movie is filming in NY.
The movie is being filmed in NY.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:19 pm

There are dishes to do. No, but I wouldn't regard it as wrong.
There are dishes to be done. Yes.

These apples are ready to eat. No, but I wouldn't regard it as wrong.
These apples are ready for eating. Yes.
These apples are ready to be eaten. Borderline.

The movie is filming in NY. No way, yuck!
The movie is being filmed in NY. Yes.

Now the question is, why do we say "There are dishes to be done," but not "there are apples to be eaten." I think it needs to be a chore or work of some sort - cf "There are a lot of apples to be pealed," which is, I think, more likely.

Filming takes a long time hence present continuous passive.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:30 pm

There are dishes to do. No, but I wouldn't regard it as wrong.

One would hope not.

"There are a lot of apples to be pealed," which is, I think, more likely.

Ring those apples.

Now the question is, why do we say "There are dishes to be done," but not "there are apples to be eaten." I think it needs to be a chore or work of some sort - cf

It's the kind of thing my mother would say if she bought apples and they were still uneaten after a week. She a bit of a frugalist is my mother.

sbourque · Post by **sbourque** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:31 am

"I've got things to do, places to go, people to see..."

but no passives to use in these examples!

Actually, my mother would always say "YOU'VE got dishes to do."

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:38 am

Nobody says "I've got a train to be caught"

Don't these structures just leave out "for me" ("for you" in the case of the dishes

):

There's a lot of reports (for us) to write.

That "movie filming" is different and it's our old friend the ergative/middle.
Each person has their own threshold for these: "Books sell" is ok for almost everybody but "movies film" is one step too far far for some.

They seem to start within a speciality at which point they are a bit "off" to the rest of us, until we get used to them. Not being movie people Andrew and I baulk at "movies film". Give it time. What about "My new cd is pressing as we speak"? Same problem: too "insider" for the moment.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 5:56 am

If a gun was pressing (itself) to my head, I'd say the first example in each set quite appeals.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:55 am

sbourque wrote:
Actually, my mother would always say "YOU'VE got dishes to do."

Very direct woman, right?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:00 am

fluffyhamster wrote:If a gun was pressing (itself) to my head, I'd say the first example in each set quite appeals.

So, which would you commonly use?

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:04 am

Once someone had said to me (in real life, not in a grammar class), "Those apples are waiting to be eaten."

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:27 am

Nobody says "I've got a train to be caught"

Well, maybe someone does/has done, but it wasn't me. Some might say "There's a train to be caught. Move your ars*!".

Don't these structures just leave out "for me" ("for you" in the case of the dishes ):

Only to the same level as other agentless passives.

Juan, all this comment on the examples is great, but, first, which would you commonly find yourself using?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:30 am

What about "My new cd is pressing as we speak"? Same problem: too "insider" for the moment.

I have no problem with it. There could be ambiguity caused by other meanings of "pressing" (e.g. "urgent") though.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:35 am

Anuradha Chepur wrote:Once someone had said to me (in real life, not in a grammar class), "Those apples are waiting to be eaten."

I heard "those children are asking to be beaten".

Which of the examples would you commonly find yourself using, Anuradha?

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:03 am

There are dishes to do. (Let me hurry up, God I'm getting late)
There are dishes to be done. (Darn it.)
(Both.)

These apples are ready to eat.
These apples are ready for eating.
These apples are ready to be eaten.
(I wouldn't use any of them, as I didn't see apples not ready to be eaten.)

The movie is filming in NY.
The movie is being filmed in NY. (This one.)

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:47 am

(I wouldn't use any of them, as I didn't see apples not ready to be eaten.)

Unripe apples are not ready to be eaten/ready for eating.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:56 am

I meant we don't find unripe apples in Hyderabad.
They come here from North India, and they are ripe when we
buy them.
So we don't get to see unripe apples.

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