Does "screw up" ever mean "to persevere???&qu

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

My student from Beijing looked up the phrase "screw up" using some kind of translation software she has on her PC. In addition to "blunder," the translator also said that it can mean "to persevere" or to recover from some dire circumstance "by unconventional means."
Unfortunately I can't recall if an example was provided, but I think that's because none was provided.
I'm familiar with the use of "screw up" meaning to "conjure," as in "to screw up the courage" to do something, but that doesn't fit the above translation in question.
My first reaction was to declare her translation software a ripoff, but I realized that I was only speaking as an American.
Would the representatives from the other Englishes comment on this? Does "screw up" ever have the above stated meaning?

[jotham]

I wasn't aware of this either, but according to Encarta:
http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... 1861709684

1. muster something: to gather courage or nerve before doing something

Though similar, this isn't the same as persevere.

[fluffyhamster]

Maybe something like 'He screwed up his face (and got on with it)' is what's being alluded to, but that still doesn't seem self-contained enough (note the conjunction followed by extra context) to be fully convincing.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

So, after a week of waiting and googling, I feel reasonably ready to declare my student's translation software a fraud. I just didn't want to do it prematurely.
Thanks to all (two) of you who replied. Anyone else who cares to chime in is welcome to do so.

[Lotus]

Sorry for being tardy. I don't have the time to spend in this forum that I'd like, and I just saw this thread.

I don't remember where I heard this, but "screwed himself to the sticking point" seems to have the meaning of perserverance. It certainly isn't common, and it is not "screw up", but just "screw". Oh, my, let's not go on with this.

I just remembered where I heard that phrase. It was in Disney's "Beauty and the Beast". In a song, people were encouraged to "screw your courage to the sticking point" before the villain led the villagers against the beast.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

Interesting. I'd never heard that one. Then wouldn't that indicate tenacity rather than persevereance? Like stick to your guns? Screw as in affix, attatch, Like having eyes or ears glued to sth, or being rivited?
The sticking point? What on Earth is that? Oh, don't answer that. It'll just lead to another digression.
Or will it? Maybe all will be revealed.
Yeah, right. (^-^)
Anyway, that was a cool movie, wasn't it? Best of the neo-Disney features IMHO. As if that isn't a digression from the farthest reaches of irrelevance.
Uh...remember that part where he beat up the wolves? That was awesome!!!

[Lotus]

I agree, the wolf beatings was an awesome scene. And later, it gave Mrs. Potts something to sing about.

I think the sticking point is just a way of saying psyche yourself up. Get pumped, cause this is it. Geronimo! That sort of thing. Digressions aside, I think there must be some sort of idea of perseverance or tenacity in the etymology for the song writers to pick up on. Now, I'm really curious.

My first reaction was to declare her translation software a ripoff, but I realized that I was only speaking as an American. This is entirely possible. I won't allow my students to use those electronic translations devices, because they are almost always wrong. And the pronunciations are horrible; really incomprehensible.

[mrandmrsjohnqsmith]

I know a lot of folks opt for a total ban on translation dictionaries. I don't go quite so extreme. The translator, like everything else, can be useful, as long as people realize that it's only one tool in a set, that it's imperfect, that it can't do everything, that there are often no direct translations, that even when there are direct translations, the way the vocab item works into the structure of the language must also be learned, that sometimes several vocab items are needed in one language to serve the purpose of just one in another, and/or vice-versa (ie, in English, we "put on" and "take off" our hats, glasses, shirts, socks, jeans, makeup, etc, whereas in the Japanese language we use different verbs for each of these items), that learning a vocab item is more than just translating it into one's own language (ie. one must understand when to use "look at," "watch," and "see," and just because you can translate "no problem" into another language does NOT mean you can use it in the same way), and, as you so rightly pointed out, Lotus, that those thingys, especially the cheaper ones, are very often WRONG entirely.
I'd be preaching to the choir if I were to start griping about how many students seem unable to shake the urge to believe that, if it's written, it MUST BE TRUE, and therefore, in the event of a discrepancy between what you tell them and what their little machine tells them, YOU MUST BE WRONG.
IF learners understand and remain cognizant of the limitations, however, then I'm not entirely opposed to translation dictionaries. They can be helpful...occasionally. They can serve a purpose. Personally, I'd advocate higher standards; If learners are going to spend their money on a dictionary, I'd recommend that they make sure it's one that 1) thoroughly explains and demonstrates the various uses AND LIMITATIONS of a vocabulary item, 2) explains and demonstrates how it fits into structures, for example, transitivity, countability, with what prepositions or particles it can be juxtaposed, collocation, etc. (Just because the student knows the meaning of "suggest" doesn't mean s/he knows how to make a sentence with it, right? How many times have you heard, "I suggest you to...?" ) 3) provides etymology, 4) acknowledges a variety of pronunciation patterns, (you say tomato, I say tomato), 5) provides synonyms that are common among various Englishes (ie. plimsolls, sandshoes, sneakers, tennis shoes, trainers, etc), 6) describes false cognates/false friends among various Englishes, ie. "pants," "pavement," and, 7) something I wish we could see more of: ability to look up phrases and not just single items.
Oh yeah, 8 ) be accurate.
It seems that the higher-end translation dictionaries are better about these things; you really do get what you pay for. If they're going to skimp on the price tag, they might as well not buy one at all, at least the way things are, currently, IMHO.
To be fair, it's not easy to find a bound translation dictionary that fits many of these criteria, either, or even a simple English->English dictionary, for that matter, and again, you get what you pay for.
Most of my experience with those translators is limited to my work in Japan, where there's a bit more control; I can only guess what it's like in the good ol' PRC, the land of miracles, where "Lord of the Rings II" was already available on DVD at a time when the film was still in post-production (the DVD was actually "Sword and the Sorcerer," an old Conan/Beastmaster-style flick from the early '80s, in a LOTRII box ), and where Harry Potter #s 5, 6, and 7 were already on the shelves while the rest of us were just getting Chamber of Secrets in paperback. I guess The Party's just waaay ahead of us, when it comes to fantasy.
(rim shot, thank you)
If my students want to take a microchip's word over mine, that's their business, (though I wonder why they bother spending their time and money coming to me). It's their education, and if they wish to believe the beeping thing over my advice then they do so at their own peril; I'm not in the business of thought control (that's somebody else's job, heh-heh). Regardless of their decisions, I do feel obligated to do what I can to help ensure that they're making informed decisions: I think it's important for them to understand that they are being targeted by charlatans who know that there's money to be made in selling software, study guides, and alas, live lessons, regardless of quality or accuracy. Perhaps if learners understood that a fly-by-night publisher or software developer is just as likely to sell them mediocre product as a fly-by-night "school," they'd take a more active role in seeing that they're getting what they pay for.
There's one way in which I'll be draconian about those things: I don't want to hear BEEPING during a lesson.
(>o<) ARGH!
Can I get an Amen?

[revel]

deleted

[MrPedantic]

The song lyric probably refers to Macbeth, Act I sc. vii:

1. But screw your courage to the sticking-place,
And we'll not fail.

The "sticking-place" is simply the point at which no further movement is possible, as when you finish tightening a screw.

All the best,

MrP