Teaching Present Simple and Present Cont. to Germans

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:55 am

Hello,

I have just begun teaching in Germany and am still working through the nervous stage. Yesterday was my second session with my first group of students and we started to review the present simple and present continuous. I went into the class feeling as if I could explain it and understood it myself, but when faced with my students' confusion I began to get discouraged. It seemed the more I tried to explain it the more confusing it became.

I spoke with my manager after that and he gave a few tips. It helped to have it pointed out that Germans find this grammar point more difficult because these tense differences do not exist in German.

I was wondering if anyone had any special way of handling this topic or could direct me to any resources that would prove helpful. I felt terrible when I seemed to confuse them more. It's my job to make English seem less confusing!

I appreaciate any advice. Thank you!

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:04 pm

Hey rblajev and let me be the first to say welcome to the forum!

First off, it would help to know a bit more about the students and what sort of questions they're asking. Are they beginners or have they come across the Continuous aspect before? Do you know if another teacher has given them a "list of verbs you can't use in the Continuous?"

I don't know much German myself, but even if it doesn't have a Continuous aspect, it must have ways of expressing the same idea, even if it isn't through the verb form. If you can, translating the idea rather than the words might help.

ouyang · Post by **ouyang** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:13 am

Timelines are often helpful for explaining tenses. Here are some links I found to give you an idea. The timelines that I draw on the chalkboard are more like the 2nd url, but I use color along with different line styles to indicate the duration of the action.
http://www.ego4u.com/en/cram-up/grammar/tenses-graphic
http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/gsl ... enses.html

Present Simple & Present Continuous are often presented first in beginner English classes, because these verb forms are the easiest to remember. However, you need to keep in mind that we primarily use present simple for mental processes and Present Continuous for material processes. So, choose your verbs accordingly. "like, want, need, feel" would be good present simple examples, but the first three cannot be used for the present continuous, because they are stative verbs.

Material process verbs, like "eat, play, clean, buy, wear" can be used in the present simple as habitual actions. I indicate this on a timeline with a series of "X's". An adverb of frequency is also necessary. The present continuous is indicated in contrast to this as a continuous line on your timeline that denotes past action and an expected continuation into the future.

Of course, present continuous is also used for the future. "We are leaving tomorrow", which you indicate on your timeline as occuring sometine after your "NOW" marker.

In real life, we primarily use the past tense to talk about material processes, but this is more demanding of beginner students because the most common verbs are irregular. Keep in mind that this limits the communicative activities that you can use. I, myself, use modal verbs, 'can, should, will' when teaching the present (base infinitive form) because it provides more natural opportunities for student-generated speech.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:26 am

My nuggets of help are firstly that you check the students' understanding of the terminology: "continuous" is an extremely unhelpful term for a temporary state of affairs.

Another is that you must try to put yourself in the students' shoes. I couldn't see the problem of this particular tense for Spanish speakers until I understood Spanish better. If I understand correctly German uses adverbs to get across things like

" I drink beer but I'm not drinking beer" which would be plain contradictory if both tenses were simple.

The beginning of this looks sensible

http://www.flet.keio.ac.jp/~colloq/arti ... 5_imai.pdf

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:34 am

Double post but I don't want the helping to get mixed up with the bickering. This post is the bicker

:

Ouyang, rash assertions such as

like, want, need" cannot be used for the present continuous, because they are stative verbs

are like the proverbial red rag because they immediately get me, and not just me, ransacking our brains for counter examples.

I suppose it's one of those "true enough" rules that are useful in class but it's not really true, is it?

ouyang · Post by **ouyang** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:05 am

Hey, "I'm loving it" as Ronald McDonald says. Yes, stative verbs are occasionally used with the continuous aspect. Often the meaning changes when the are used. For example, "I'm having a party" vs. "I'm having a grammar book."

Juan, I think you misunderstood my suggestions to some degree. I would never use words like "continuous" or "stative" with beginning English students. I meant that teachers should be aware that the choice of tense and aspect relates to the intrinsic meaing of a verb and allow this to guide them in selecting vocabulary and designing lesson plans.

I think one of the most important principles for new English teachers to understand is that they should NOT EXPLAIN the language. The language required to do this is more complicated than what they are teaching. In this respect, teaching a second language is different than any other subject. However, the more clearly the teacher understands the language, the more effectively he or she can present language for students to use in classroom activities.

Timelines aren't really explanations. They're models and can function like photographs do for introducing new vocabulary. You can't get around presenting grammar (syntax and inflections), but you don't have to use grammatical terms. You just have to communicate the meaning that the syntax and verb forms convey.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:46 pm

I don't have a problem with a teacher saying "such-and-such a verb isn't normally used in the continuous aspect" so long as it's clear that they're giving a guideline rather than a rule. But what one should really to is explore the semantics of the continuous aspect to see why forms like wanting and needing are less likely than want or need.

"Because it's a stative verb" isn't really an answer as it just puts the verbs in a box marked "Do not put into the Continuous", without exploring the language. Students who've just learned to apply "rules" mechanically almost always run into problems when they get past FCE level: "But my last teacher said..."

I find it helps to compare examples like "He works/is working for Microsoft" or "He lives/is living in London", where simple suggests a (semi-)permanent situation and continuous emphasises a temporary one.

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:29 pm

It's also fair to say that many students in Spain, and I imagine other places, are very familiar with grammatical terms as applied to their first language. Lengua Española has serious syntactical analysis from when students are about 11. In these situations grammar terms can help, as long as you check how rusty the students are.

rblajev, is that:

"I have just begun teaching, in Germany"

or

"I have just begun teaching in Germany though I've taught elsewhere"?

bcause if it's the second then I'd find out about German and leave it at that.

If it's the first, then don't sweat. We've all been there and find ourselves there again from time to time. I'm sure my students learnt English but despite my efforts for the first few months

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 3:22 am

Thank you everyone. I haven't been able to read all of the responses thoroughly, but hope to do so tomorrow or Monday. My next session with the students is Tuesday morning, so I will definitely look more closely at all of these ideas before then.

Until then!

Macavity · Post by **Macavity** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:22 pm

Ich fliege nach New York vier mal im Jahr.

I fly to New York four times a year.

Ich fliege nach New York nächste Woche.

I’m flying to New York next week.

The trouble starts if you try to compare the languages as there appears to be something missing from German or something unnecessary in English. You could try concentrating on exploring the “ing form” with your students; this is what is “not there in German”. Of course the ideas are there - it’s just how they are retold is different .

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:24 am

lolwhites wrote:Hey rblajev and let me be the first to say welcome to the forum!

First off, it would help to know a bit more about the students and what sort of questions they're asking. Are they beginners or have they come across the Continuous aspect before? Do you know if another teacher has given them a "list of verbs you can't use in the Continuous?"

I don't know much German myself, but even if it doesn't have a Continuous aspect, it must have ways of expressing the same idea, even if it isn't through the verb form. If you can, translating the idea rather than the words might help.

Thank you lolwhites,

The students have been allocated in a Pre-Intermediate level. The problem is that this is a self-assessment for the most part. The company representative who set up the course with my school was not very cooperative about having each student assessed by my director. I was told that I should pay attention to be sure they are all in the right course.

I know that at least one student has come across this before. The main issue is that they have difficulty deciding when to choose one over the other--something that should be inferred from context. I made it worse by doubting my own explanation. When they seemed confused by the book definition, I tried to elaborate on the explanation. The examples were tricky and then my own insecurity made it all a blur.

I know enough about German, at least from the other teachers here, to know that this is something that doesn't exist in the same way as in English. Apparently, German uses phrases that set time instead of relying on verb tenses.

It helps me now to realize this and part of the problem was my own limited experience with the German language.

Thanks again for your input!

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:41 am

ouyang wrote:Timelines are often helpful for explaining tenses. Here are some links I found to give you an idea. The timelines that I draw on the chalkboard are more like the 2nd url, but I use color along with different line styles to indicate the duration of the action.
http://www.ego4u.com/en/cram-up/grammar/tenses-graphic
http://modena.intergate.ca/personal/gsl ... enses.html

Present Simple & Present Continuous are often presented first in beginner English classes, because these verb forms are the easiest to remember. However, you need to keep in mind that we primarily use present simple for mental processes and Present Continuous for material processes. So, choose your verbs accordingly. "like, want, need, feel" would be good present simple examples, but the first three cannot be used for the present continuous, because they are stative verbs.

Material process verbs, like "eat, play, clean, buy, wear" can be used in the present simple as habitual actions. I indicate this on a timeline with a series of "X's". An adverb of frequency is also necessary. The present continuous is indicated in contrast to this as a continuous line on your timeline that denotes past action and an expected continuation into the future.

Of course, present continuous is also used for the future. "We are leaving tomorrow", which you indicate on your timeline as occuring sometine after your "NOW" marker.

In real life, we primarily use the past tense to talk about material processes, but this is more demanding of beginner students because the most common verbs are irregular. Keep in mind that this limits the communicative activities that you can use. I, myself, use modal verbs, 'can, should, will' when teaching the present (base infinitive form) because it provides more natural opportunities for student-generated speech.

thank you for your input. I have gained more technical understanding, but one problem with communicating these things to others is that the explanation is often more complicated than the problem. I mean, if the explanation is a lot of linguistic jargon they may even get lost because they don't have the vocabulary to understand the explanation, which would require a lot of grammar vocabulary that might impede the unstanding even further by diverting the goal.

The timeline will definitely, help, though. It is important, I agree, to give something visual.

However, I think you may be wrong about 'feel'.

I feel.--ps meaning I feel things. I felt before, I feel now and I will continue to feel. It is normal for me.

I am feeling sad.--at this moment, and maybe for a time in the past and maybe for a bit of the future, I am sad. However, this may not be a permanent or normal state. Last year, in a time before NOW and next year, a time after NOW I may not feel sad.

This is how I understand the grammar and the logic. Is that wrong? If it is right, then it is not right to say that 'feel' is not a verb that can be used in the PC form.

Please correct me if I am wrong about this...

oh, and please go to next response...I didn't see your next post until too late.

Thanks again!

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:59 am

JuanTwoThree wrote:My nuggets of help are firstly that you check the students' understanding of the terminology: "continuous" is an extremely unhelpful term for a temporary state of affairs.

Another is that you must try to put yourself in the students' shoes. I couldn't see the problem of this particular tense for Spanish speakers until I understood Spanish better. If I understand correctly German uses adverbs to get across things like

" I drink beer but I'm not drinking beer" which would be plain contradictory if both tenses were simple.

The beginning of this looks sensible

http://www.flet.keio.ac.jp/~colloq/arti ... 5_imai.pdf

You're right...we should define continuous in this situation. And, my main difficulty was my inexperience with German. German does use helpers:

Ich arbeite bis 9:00. I work until...
Ich arbeite jetzt. I work now; or I am working now.

I think.

thanks for your help!

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:10 am

ouyang wrote:Hey, "I'm loving it" as Ronald McDonald says. Yes, stative verbs are occasionally used with the continuous aspect. Often the meaning changes when the are used. For example, "I'm having a party" vs. "I'm having a grammar book."

Juan, I think you misunderstood my suggestions to some degree. I would never use words like "continuous" or "stative" with beginning English students. I meant that teachers should be aware that the choice of tense and aspect relates to the intrinsic meaing of a verb and allow this to guide them in selecting vocabulary and designing lesson plans.

I think one of the most important principles for new English teachers to understand is that they should NOT EXPLAIN the language. The language required to do this is more complicated than what they are teaching. In this respect, teaching a second language is different than any other subject. However, the more clearly the teacher understands the language, the more effectively he or she can present language for students to use in classroom activities.

Timelines aren't really explanations. They're models and can function like photographs do for introducing new vocabulary. You can't get around presenting grammar (syntax and inflections), but you don't have to use grammatical terms. You just have to communicate the meaning that the syntax and verb forms convey.

oh, right, should have read this one again before my earlier response!

thanks!

rblajev · Post by **rblajev** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:20 am

Macavity wrote:Ich fliege nach New York vier mal im Jahr.

I fly to New York four times a year.

Ich fliege nach New York nächste Woche.

I’m flying to New York next week.

The trouble starts if you try to compare the languages as there appears to be something missing from German or something unnecessary in English. You could try concentrating on exploring the “ing form” with your students; this is what is “not there in German”. Of course the ideas are there - it’s just how they are retold is different .

You are probably right but I hesitate because wouldn't that encompass other tenses at the same time? Wouldn't that make it more confusing?

Is there a way to discuss the 'ing' without making the tense thing more confusing?

thanks°!