Article about using translation in TEFL

Kootvela · Post by **Kootvela** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:55 pm

I am still struggling with my article 'Using Translation into L1 in TEFL' and finally the theory part is done. I have compiled a questionnaire for TEFL teachers to share their views about the topic. I would be grateful if you could take part. PM or email me for more info, thank you!

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:13 pm

I'm not going to apply to take part in a questionnaire, and I guess no one will since most of them sit unanswered even if they are right there and easy to answer. However I like lots of lovely L1 in the classroom and it might be a good discussion if you care to kick it off.

Kootvela · Post by **Kootvela** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:24 am

It's a problem that I need to carry out a research but I cannot do it until teachers provide the facts from their own classroom.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:50 am

Why do you need to? To do some fairly pointless practice to get some sort of possibly useless qualification? If so it isn't your fault, but maybe it is about time the academic community stopped turning all students into characters about as welcome as Jehovah's witnesses.

The best you are going to get, I reckon, is that you tell us what you think, and then we say if we agree. Not very scientific, but there you go.

Kootvela · Post by **Kootvela** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:42 am

woodcutter wrote:Why do you need to? To do some fairly pointless practice to get some sort of possibly useless qualification? If so it isn't your fault, but maybe it is about time the academic community stopped turning all students into characters about as welcome as Jehovah's witnesses.

The best you are going to get, I reckon, is that you tell us what you think, and then we say if we agree. Not very scientific, but there you go.

Well, I have two degrees anyway, so gettign qualified is not a point here. I do it for my own pleasure. And I cannot say what I think and you say Yes/No because it's a survey and based on the results I will draw conclusions. Very scientific.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:32 pm

I hope your questionnaire isn't anything like naturegirl321's survey on the use of games was (when she linked to it over on the International forums). A related thread generated some amusing responses:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic ... 146#620146

The question of translation into L1 (whether to or not) usually more boils down to the teacher's ability with additional languages than any mindless allegiance to a Direct Method spin-off, and non-native English teachers will obviously be better or more comfortable with translation than the apparent hordes of native English speakers who are barely proficient in English let alone another language.

Me, I like to try to give the sales patter (set-up) for activities in Chinese or Japanese (when teaching in those countries or students from them), if only to make the actual English target language stand out more clearly (from what would otherwise be a relentless drone with the Direct Method), and to demonstrate the use of compensatory strategies (esp. when my L2 is lacking/one might not be expected to know that word), and relatedly that making mistakes is OK etc (not that I set out to make mistakes!).

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:03 am

Kootvela no doubt gave up in disgust here because she was second on that thread you posted anyway.

Oooh, I hate avatars. Is that you being a disgusting old man Duncan?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:26 am

Ooh, indeed she was - well spotted, woodcutter! I didn't recognize her without her pic. As for Wilfrid Brambell, I thought that's what all EFL teachers ended up looking like after a month or two (females, maybe something like the mother turned zombie in Braindead - right, Lori?

).

Macavity · Post by **Macavity** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:14 am

For what it's worth, I used to be a bit of a reformed smoker when it came to using L1 in the classroom. Equiped with my newly issued diploma, I set out to rid the world of this evil scourge. Now, a few years down the line, middle aged, balding, struggling to keep up with all the latest issues, running around from A to B to make ends meet, I have relented. I admit that it felt a bit odd at first; there wasn't much about using such tried and trusted methods in my diploma course you see. But I soon got over the feelings of shame and guilt and no longer feel that I guard a dark secret. I wouldn't go so far as to say that I can now look my colleagues in the eyes and say "yes, my name is Mac, and I use translation", but I feel no need to do this anyway. Thanks for listening, that makes me feel better about it all.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:25 am

Thanks for sharing, Mac! No need to be ashamed - we're probably all addicted to it!

So, who's next?

(Rubber fetishists however should proceed to this link: http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewt ... 5672#35672 ).

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:49 pm

Have you ever seen a non-local textbook that was aimed at a monolingual/monocultural class? I don't think I have, even though there is a lot of talk about the difference between ESL and EFL. So in the heads of the education gurus, there is no possiblity of using translation. They also assume that in countries like China, Japan etc that westerners can't do that. So they create the myth that this is a good thing, and some of us have to creep around hiding our hard-earned and useful skills. They ought to pay a bit more instead, perhaps?

Can you imagine if your high-school foreign language teachers didn't speak English? Would people have been impressed with that? The class would have been like bedlam, for a start.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:36 pm

Probably CUP, OUP, Longman etc looked at producing specific L1 spin-offs from established textbook ranges, but were embarrassed at the resulting triteness (would it be that hard for students to translate the text themselves, at no expense to the publisher?); there is however obviously a market for picture (most notably the Oxford) and bilingual (e.g. Oxford/Z-Kai Wordpower in full translation, Cambridge Learner's (glosses only)) dictionaries, and some of the more popular of the grammar practice and/or reference books (for example, in Japan I've seen a full Japanese language edition of Swan's PEU2, and of Murphy Basic/Essential and Intermediate with at least the instructions in Japanese, all by arrangement with the Japanese publishers), doubtless because students would soon see them as worth the additional investment (as opposed to their flimsy overpriced copies of Interchange etc). All that being said, I would have no objection to textbooks geared more to local markets, with glosses supplied etc.

The problem with endorsing translation is that there is then the risk of the bilingual teacher going to the opposite extreme and taking all the effort out of communication and learning (so that it becomes in effect a conversation class from which only the teacher benefits). I don't think that native English-speaking teachers would do it as much as some Japanese teachers of English that I've seen, but there'd always be the "risk" that any single translation was about to be rendered unnecessary and could've therefore remained unsupplied (then again, what's wrong with establishing the meanings of essentials beyond any doubt?).

Hmm, I had French up to O level, and most of the teachers were Brits (and even the somewhat French types didn't really use that much French). My next dalliance with foreign languages was Chinese at "postgraduate" level (i.e. it was an "intensive" course from beginner up to...upper intermediate?), but even there the Taiwanese teacher seemed to feel no urgency to use Mandarin except when he was plainly shifting into it for the purposes of demonstrating some language point.

Anyway, I think a lot of time can be wasted with direct methods, especially when the point being taught is hardly that earth-shattering. Mention the word or phrase, translate (or have a translation of essential points ready) if necessary, and assume the students will be more familiar with the item the next time you use it.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:42 pm

The thing about the books is not only that they could provide translation, but that someone ought to be making teacher texts that don't constantly suggest activities where students have "interesting" discussions and projects which assume a multinational environment.

As for "going too far", of course that is possible, but far too much importance is placed on the general banter of the class as opposed to the meat of the teaching, and the latter works much better if you can control and explain it.

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:40 pm

woodcutter wrote:As for "going too far", of course that is possible, but far too much importance is placed on the general banter of the class as opposed to the meat of the teaching, and the latter works much better if you can control and explain it.

I'd actually like to see "general banter" (that is, a proper demonstration and practice of it over a series of "connected" lessons in an unfolding "megadiscourse" sense - class soaps ahoy?) become the focus in classes that are meant to be teaching "General English" for presumably conversational purposes (or where further study will assume a reasonable grasp of at least that type of basic spoken English); the problem then would be in working out exactly what would be interesting or appropriate for the locals to hear about let alone themselves chat about. But I agree with your view of the typical textbook-centered lesson at present:

The thing about the books is not only that they could provide translation, but that someone ought to be making teacher texts that don't constantly suggest activities where students have "interesting" discussions and projects which assume a multinational environment.