Teacher Discussion Forums

The way someone carries oneself can determine....[I'm not feeling creative enough to make up the rest of the sentence.]

Is this correct? If not, what reflexive pronoun should be used? Themselves and theirselves are plural and someone is singular; themself and theirself are non-standard, and oneself sounds strange to me. Anyone know?

Thank you,

Donna

"The way someone carries him or herself" is a little cumbersome, but correct. I think it used to be "the way someone carries himself" but it's no longer politically correct, even if it is grammatically correct. "The way one carries oneself" would also work.

Thank you for your help. Is there some particular reason that oneself cannot be used for someone?

Donna

http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=4876f

Nearly four million googles for themself!

If you google "someone carries.........." then the sample isn't huge, but themselves is way ahead, then themself, then individual genders, then both genders together. No oneself.

I also prefer themselves, though it may not be especially logical.

Ok, so google says what it says (descriptive grammar and all that good stuff), but is there a rule (I like rules) that says the pronoun "someone" takes reflexive pronouns "himself" or "herself", but NOT "oneself"? Or, the indefinite pronoun "one" takes the reflexive pronoun "oneself", but "oneself" does not apply to any other indefinite pronouns (such as "someone").

Thanks,

Donna

O hits = forbidden by rule, basically. If you want "rules" then please sign woodcutter's petition to create a sane rule pronouncing body, and prevent these "rules" being promulgated by Bill Bryson or John Humphries or long dead windbags.

It sounds very odd to say "someone carries oneself", because I think "someone" is more exclusive of self than "one", and also because of a leap in formality.

I think themselves (also themself) works very well. I also teach they/them as a possibility for the pronoun here simply because it is neutral and does away with the he/she (him/her) nonsense.

Macavity wrote:I think themselves (also themself) works very well. I also teach they/them as a possibility for the pronoun here simply because it is neutral and does away with the he/she (him/her) nonsense.

Thanks Macavity for your opinion. I have reservations about using themself since it is listed in the dictionary as non-standard, or, actually my reservations are more the result of my being promptly and not-so-kindly corrected when I used it in informal writing. Of course, I came directly here and posted my question on this board to get some insight and understanding on the matter.
So then, is it your opinion that the non-standard themself acceptable in most situations? And, isn't themselves plural and someone singular?

Thanks,

Donna

Hi Donna,

Well, I don't really consider non-standard and incorrect to mean the same thing. If I feel a form is acceptable and am comfortable with it, then I'm happy to teach it. Oxford, Cambridge, Websters, et al, don't own the rights, do they?

"The police confirmed that someone was seen leaving the premises in the early hours of the morning but that their identity was as yet unknown".

Naff example perhaps but you see where I'm coming from. Their identity is neutral/non-committal here and not necessarily plural.

Oh, I almost forgot....


Teacher: "Well, someone did it. The room didn't trash itself, did it! How many of you were involved?".

No reflection on the type of schools I teach at, BTW.

'himself', 'themselves', 'themself' are all correct. My preference is in that order.

Macavity wrote: "The police confirmed that someone was seen leaving the premises in the early hours of the morning but that their identity was as yet unknown".

Naff example perhaps but you see where I'm coming from. Their identity is neutral/non-committal here and not necessarily plural.

Ah, now I see how a pronoun that is singular uses a reflexive pronoun that is plural. Thank you.