suit and tie guy

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fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:18 am

A suit might also restrict your energetic antics, which are certainly encouraged on CELTA type courses.
That's a good point, Woody - they'd think you were nuts if you wore a suit during a CELTA course, but clobber that could cramp impressive high-kicking Hong Kong wirework-style actual teaching post-CELTA isn't to be frowned upon. The implication might therefore be that people who wear suits aren't/shouldn't still be slogging away in classrooms.

Ah, but then, we were "forgetting" about 'smart casual' - y'know, semi-ironed (semi-crumpled?) shirt and slack slacks. (Didn't somebody mention this earlier? Probably lolwhites - again! Or it might've been Iain).

But I do agree that super-strict very very smart dress codes smack more of business than education (and the strange thing is that 'Business English' generally pays peanuts...but we all know the one that ends with monkeys (then shrieks and tears)).

Next idea for discussion: a tie (neck tie) can restrict hostages' movements - handy when your CELTA trainers haven't awarded you an A grade, or even a B.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sally Olsen
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Post by Sally Olsen » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:53 pm

I guess I wonder what it is that makes a suit and tie seem stuffy and stuck up? Of course, it is just fashion. At least we don't have wear hats, gloves bustles or corsets for the women if we don't want to like my grandmother did when she was teaching in Clay Center, Kansas. And we don't have to wear a uniform which might be even worse/better?

Salverston
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Post by Salverston » Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:25 pm

I fall more to the business-like look.

On the one hand, people who always wear suit and tie are going overboard in most cases.

On the other hand are those that seem to wear their disdain for anything business, wearing all kinds or ratty clothes, unkempt hair, sandals and the list goes on.

I do believe you need to dress appropriately for your students and to some extent their parents. But the question really is: are you dressing for your students? Or just for yourself and you are making excuses?

In almost all cases, students and parents will more appreciate a teacher who shows respect and takes the time to dress and look professional. After all, in most cases they are spending a lot of money for the education. In most cases, you are getting paid a lot of money in relation to the salaries of other people in the country.

Here is the key point - Dressing nicer won't make the teacher better - but in almost all cases those teachers will be considered to be more knowledgeable and more professional than those who dress like some hippies left over from the late 1960s. That is because in most cases our clients are from generally wealthier families (because they can pay for the extra classes) and wealthier families are generally professionals.

Now a tie is not something I will wear, unless it is private tutoring to a high management person (CFO, CEO, etc) and I normally stay with a dress code I feel is appropriate for my students and the SES of those paying the bills.

Does this make me a better teacher? No. But does this give a better impact on those who in the end pay my bills (parents, etc)? You betcha! Does it tend to help me the odd time when there are issues with students and parents? Definitely so.

It just comes down to - are you professional? I am a professional teacher. I take my career and my job seriously. Now, if you are someone just dabbling, spending just a couple years teaching before you "get serious" with your life then that is fine. In that case you are definitely not a professional and don't understand why it is a big thing. That is okay. Just a hint... don't look down on professional teachers. Actually, it is a real bad idea to look down on any teachers who are there doing something to try to improve someone else's life by passing on knowledge. That is an incredibly BAD attitude for any teacher to have.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:49 pm

Welcome to the Teacher forums, Salverston! I guess (know) in your last paragraph there you're addressing the general reader rather than anyone who's posted so far on this thread (and for whomever it might concern, believe it or not, the regulars here are professionals (yes, even Woody! :lol: :wink: ), but because they aren't doctors saving lives, or bankers rolling in previous profits and now taxpayer bailouts, they probably aren't ever going to be that sharply dressed. (That's my "poor teacher" argument now well and truly exhausted!)).

Hmm, uniforms (Nurse Sally! :lol: :wink: 8) ), I remember EF thinking it would be a good idea if we did the initial meetings (for levelling students) with Nike in sports gear and EF sweatshirts to top it all off (this was around the time they were sponsoring two yachts in the Whitbread race, so there was some spare merchandise sloshing around). So teachers who'd packed and come over with formal suits and shoes went off scrabbling to dig out or buy more "appropriate" attire...and on the day presented a somewhat less-than-top-gear-like-Nike sight (it didn't help that my sweatshirt was something like M when I'm at least an XL. But maybe I looked buff in that tight top?). Then, when the actual courses began, I arrived (after a nice long stop-start taxi ride) at Nike with food poisoning from eating snails that a friend had bought (gathered?) and "cooked" the night before, dashed into the Nike toilets to throw up, wiped up quick, staggered out to help up with the textbook deliveries, and promptly split open the seat of my single-stitch trousers whilst bending for a particularly large and heavy box...had to teach the rest of the morning with my jumper tied around my waist and covering my bum. Wonder what my breath smelt like (Tip: Always carry toothpaste and brush with you whenever teaching at far-flung locations). (I wonder if there's any sort of book that might come out of all this? :o :idea: :lol: :D ).

woodcutter
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Post by woodcutter » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:34 pm

People are very fond of their imagined monsters. I certainly haven't met as many "punk" or "hippy" teachers as I've met suits - maybe because I never worked in Thailand. I don't know if I've really met any.

I have argued here that suits are not suitable professional attire. If you wear one you are like a P.E teacher who goes out to run the soccer class in a suit just because the posh parents seem to like that. Semi-formal clothing is better.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:40 am

Nah, for footie, you only need an Adidas tracksuit, Adidas footwear, Adidas football, Adidas sportsbag etc.

Salverston
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Post by Salverston » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:53 am

Fluffyhamster - You are right, I was talking the generic "you" not talking to anyone in particuler.

Woodcutter -
Again, I think it really depends on who you are teaching. I have been paid $20/hr to give tutoring classes to CFOs and CEOs. Yes, I wear a tie to these sessions because I want to fit in to the business crowd. Most of the time, though I dress in a business casual mode - slacks with open neck shirt or clean polo. Sometimes, on Saturdays or when the circumstances direct, I'll break out the jeans, but to me, those are a rarity.

Of course, I am teaching to some fairly upscale clients in most cases mid-senior business executives, mid-level government employees and the like.

Two points though - I am the guy who is generally the most professionally dressed of the group of teachers. Oddly enough, I am also the one who gets the highest paying teaching assignments with the senior executives. The director knows I will not embarrass them and most likely there will be much more business coming from that company after I have made a good impression.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:07 pm

$20 per hour doesn't sound bad for TEFL (especially if it's in less developed countries), but in the UK (which is where I'm from) that wouldn't be much different from the average general ELT wage. Anyway, I suspect that your bosses (Salverston) were charging the client a lot more than that, whilst still expecting you to look your usual best all the time (was it easy to budget for clothes? LOL). But you're right of course that the more presentable teachers do generally get the sweeter deals, promotions etc, and I have no objection in principle to all that (and somewhat wish that I'd been able to afford it more myself! Much as I've enjoyed teaching English, I'm now looking beyond "basic" ELT to ostensibly more "qualified", and certainly better paid, work).

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Post by lolwhites » Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:58 pm

I once worked in a language school on the South Coast of England where all male staff had to wear ties, except on the hottest days. A local department store was having a sale, so a went there and bought the most lurid, garish, outrageously vile clashing-coloured tie I could lay my hands on.

Happy days.

woodcutter
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Post by woodcutter » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:48 pm

Does that make you a punk? :)

Yes, suits annoyingly win cushy jobs.

I'll even admit that there are a lot of latecoming-do-nothingers in ESL, and that they seldom wear suits.

It still doesn't make it the wisest clothing choice though, and in my experience it doesn't help you win "best teacher" awards based on student feedback. Good looks seem much more important for that.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:22 pm

Yeah, I guess that Brad Pitt will get away with wearing nothing, when he switches to TEFLing.

Perhaps you should set your great mind (which is obviously nibbling away at this issue) to designing a chalk-proof stab-proof vomit-proof poo-proof (etc etc*) suit, Woody? With any luck, the MoD would get interested too and you'd get a contract making our soldiers look even better operating in the most inhospitable conditions. But by all means kit yourself as a teacher out in camo combat fatigues and booties if that would be easier than the sort of grand design project just envisaged.

*Anything else that students might throw at us? Apart from difficult grammar.

woodcutter
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Post by woodcutter » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:37 am

You once set your own great mind to counting which posters had created lots of "popular" threads on this rather deserted forum. I didn't get that many - it seems that I've finally hit on a winner here with the all-important clothing issue though.

Perhaps it was the trick of starting off in a slightly daft and aggressive manner? No, no, I've tried that before...........

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:03 am

I think it's just that we all need a bit of cheering up lately, and realize that there are perhaps more important things to be worrying about than quite what passivized gerundial unergative complements or whatever are (not that clothing for teaching is something more important either, but at least it doesn't distract as much as PGUCs once might've). Anyway, I hope that this nasty recession business can be put behind us sooner rather than later, so that we can go back to what we're good at - debating all manner of arcane things whilst trying to put off preparing for unrelated lessons. :lol: 8) :D

zorro (3)
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Post by zorro (3) » Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:08 pm

It's gone a bit quiet in here...
Did fluffy's sanctions get bought over onto this forum?

woodcutter
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Post by woodcutter » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:05 am

Post removed due to rodent request.

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