Hi again Heath! Well, when the bread is the undeniable subject, things should be clear enough (and this is when any RP will be obligatory - we are not simply making a statement [e.g.
The/Some bread: baked/killed/ate/etc me], but forming a more complex subject...so the function or rather effect of the required RP is simply to delay the appearance of the actual predicate; then there is the accusative/object form 'me'):
Reasonable bread: usually costs only £1.
The mouldy bread that killed me: ironically cost £2 though!
And the bread is still what begins the sentence in
The bread (that) I ate: ... , so we are still going to predicate something about that, about what began the sentence (i.e. The bread...), even when here the 'I' rather than 'The bread' is the "real subject" (but only
thus far in the sentence...in fact, the whole 'The RP can be omitted when it is the object', or rather "object", rule seems pretty irrelevant given all these "enlargening subjects/delayed predicates"!).
I: ate the bread meanwhile is obviously very different in terms of subject and what is being predicated about it.
I guess I have always been inclined then to leave a lot about RPs (especially when they are part of NPs with differing "subjects" and "objects" within them, and that begin sentences) to simple, relatively straightforward, but hopefully powerful processes of (and tendencies in) linear word order, and to draw whatever attention to them mainly by means of comparing sentences like those I've given in the above, assisted where necessary by quick rough n ready translations into L1.
By the way, I've never been a great fan of, never myself really used, the sentence or proposition-combining approach that you mention, Heath (though when the subject-proposition in each pair relates to the
same referent, as in combining
I have a friend and
He [="who"] might be able to help - see examples in following link(s) - such an approach isn't
too brain-bending, and might I suppose have its advantages with certain students). The following thread(s) might be of interest (assuming you’ve not read this stuff already!):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/teacher/viewtopic.php?t=4271 .
Hmm, although this is probably a bit clearer than the post with which I started this thread, the points I've made are similar, so I'll stop here before I really do start repeating myself!
