Teacher Discussion Forums

Last week I started a new class at a company. First, some background information:

-They've had a couple of other teachers for the past year or so, but it was my first time with them.
-They aren't a real strong group, but most are a pre-intermediate level.
-It's a genetical research company and the people in the class are mainly lab techs, but not university degree people.
-Very informal atmosphere, ages around 22-27 I would guess. (I'm 31)
-I speak L1 fluently.

As I usually do with a new class, I gave them a speaking activity to do for most of the length of the class. They did it in groups of three (2 groups). I really encouraged them to speak English and ask me questions if they came across vocabulary they needed but didn't know. For the most part, it went well, except for one girl who practically refused to speak English and wasn't interested in participating in the whole activity. A question like "Tell us about your ideal home" would come up and she would say (in her native language) "Ah, I don't care, it so doesn't matter". It was like this for nearly all the questions, or she would simply talk in L1 rather than in English. When I asked her to speak English she said she doesn't understand English and can't speak it. This was obviously not true, she was possibly weaker, but certainly not a total beginner. I asked her if her boss or someone was forcing her to go to the class. The answer was no, so I suggested she might as well then try, since they were there to try and learn English.

Whether it was her or simply all their ages or the atmosphere or what, I felt that it was a bit of a school-ish situation, with a them-against-me atmosphere. It was better near the end of our 90 minutes together at least, but I never have this feeling with my other business classes.

Now it's come back to me through my employer that the class wants to use more of their native language in the class and have a bit of a break. I've been asked how I feel I should manage this situation and that's where I'd like your advice. What would your reaction be?

One technique that I have found works well with reluctant students is to ask them closed questions and then ask why as a follow-up question.

For example:

Would you rather live near the beach or downtown? Why?

Would you rather live in a condominium or a house? Why?

Do you like where you live right now? What are 3 good things about it? What are 3 bad things about it?

Weaker students tend to get really overwhelmed when you give a broad discussion topic, and many won't even try. Everyone can make a choice between 2 things or give a yes/no response.

Rather than speak more of the students' L1 in class, I would ask the stronger students to rephrase the questions into their L1 and then you can tell them if they are right, or provide an alternate translation if they are wrong.

Celeste,

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately I tried this, with almost the exact wording you used, and got "I don't care" in L1 as an answer.

Any other suggestions?

Hi!

It seems to me the class is nervous (?)because of your teaching style
a wild guess, sure.

I would just give them their assignments in L1 so they know what they actually should be doing and thus feel more confident.

Perhaps they feel you expect far too much from them and feel uncomfortable with you as a teacher?

I have never been in such a situation (thank goodness!)

Good luck
Siân

Hmmm. Another thing that sometimes works is board games. There is a game called "Tell us about..." in Keep Talking by Klippel. Also, if you go to www.bogglesworld.com there are a few board games that you can print out.

The only other thing that I would suggest is to give them a variety of exercises/ activities that don't last for more than 10 minutes each. If the students are easily bored then they will have a lot of trouble with long discussion classes.

Can you get in touch with the previous teacher? Were these students always this way, or is this new behaviour directedspecifically at you? Might help to find out what they liked/hated in the past.

Perhaps the entire problem is in the "I don't care" quote. Perhaps the other three teachers also had students talking about their houses. Instead of telling them they have to talk about their houses why not ask them if they want to talk about their houses.

"No, what do you want to talk about?"
"Nothing? When do you use English in your work?"
"Never? Why are you in this class?"

Or you can do what I do. I usually prepare a written needs analysis with those and other questions. Maybe I should get it up on my web site soon.

Anyway, if the answer to why they're in class is really to speak L1, then quit. They don't need you to teach them L1! I think, though, that there must be something they want to do with English because you said they weren't being forced to come to the class. Find out what that something is.

Hi Showem,

It sounds like you have 'one of those groups' !

Just a thought - maybe your approach is too informal? What I mean is, some people don't see the link between discussion exercises and progress in English. You could try a more formal exercise first (a short reading exercise about a house, along with comprehension questions), then when they have got some vocab and they're fed up with discussing someone else's opinions, they may be more ready to express themselves.

Anyway, I hope the situation has improved by now !

When I taught ESL to assembly line workers at a company, we wrote the lessons to match what the employer was interested in. The students were released from their jobs to attend, and the employer made it very clear that learning English was an important activity. Among the things we did (I worked with a colleague to teach and develop materials) was to have students explain in English what the tools they used were. (The employer had given us a tool set. The questions included things like, "What's this called? How do you use it? What are the safety precautions? etc.) They talked together and then made a presentation to the rest of the class in groups of three. At the end of that section of the class, we had them each prepare an oral explanation of how to use a piece of equipment on the floor. The lesson before the last one was a "run through" in which they took me on a tour of their work place, each explaining how the machine they were assigned worked, and what it did. On the last day, their supervisor and manager came along and took the tour.

Other activities that we did included discussions of what are polite and impolite ways of saying things. We did a lot of card exercises in pairs. (For example, questions could be put in a list of polite or impolite. "How old are you?" is considered impolite. "Give me the pliers." is not so polite. "Please pass the pliers." or "May I borrow your pliers?" would be more polite) We also used butcher paper to have them brainstorm items. (What are the advantages and disadvantages of learning English at work for example. We taped the butcher paper on the board, corrected errors, and then had the students organize the information from all the groups. Well we did a lot more, but those are a couple ideas.

Thanks all for your replies. Celeste, "Tell Us About" was exactly the game that I played with them (my own version) in the first class that went so poorly.

Several good suggestions as what to do, thanks everyone. Actually, after going in for four weeks, getting lethargic responses to everything I did with them (including talking about their work, structured practice, group grammar games), I gave the class back to my employer. It just wasn't working and it wasn't worth dragging myself out of bed at the crack of dawn to travel 45 minutes to non-responsive students. Fortunately, this is the one and only class I've had to do this with in 6 years of teaching.

I know you've given the class up, but for future reference, I'd like to add me two pennies worth...

I've had a class similar to your own, pre-intermediate as well. I had two students who were difficult, one because she had absolutely no confidence speaking in the target language, and the other who like your student, couldn't really be bothered. When the student refused to answer a question 'no questions thank you...' I just skipped her when i did the turns round the group. Other's in the group asked me and I just said she didn't want to answer any. Funnily enough, after a few turns, she started to join in. Over a period of months, she came around and ended up being one of the most motivated students...you can't lead a horse to water, but you can make it look inviting and turn your back for a while.

As someone who's been learning Finnish in Finland, I know what a strain it is trying to speak in L2, and there are times when it's just too much effort and even the simplest of sentences throw me. It's good to change the focus in a class sometimes, away from the intensity of communicative activities. I find pronunciation lessons are very good for this...especially as so many of my students have never ever had a proper one (other than the alphabet that is). Explaining the reality of 12 vowel sounds in spoken English as opposed to the 5 of written English is a revelation for many of the students.

One activity which is usually a lot of fun is to give one of the vowel sounds to each of the students and then ask them to say the sound when requested (when pointed to). Then play them like an orchestra. After a few turns, get one of the students to conduct the rest of the class and so on, changing their sounds according to their proficiency.

One final note on getting students interested. One technique which I tried with lots of success in the last year was to appoint a different student each week to come up with a discussion topic for the following week by the end of the class (open to everyone if they cannot think of anything). I have the internet at home and if you're practiced with the search engines it's amazing what you can dig up about topics. What's also interesting is what students have chosen for topics. Some of the interesting topics and the activities (groups differed in their proficiencies) that I used with them are:

Red London Buses
It was a revelation for me to find out why double deckers came about. It used to be that double deckers started with horse drawn vehicles, the top deck was just the roof of the bus, and people would climb on - the cheap seats - and eventually they made rails and ladders etc.....the point being that it was an interesting story, which led to a lively discussion on transport in general.
Astrology - (used astrodienst http://www.astro.com/horoscopes/ahor.asp to do all their charts and removed sun sign information and then asked them to guess who's was who. I also introduced so called professional personality questionnaires and some fun personality questionnaires (the Dalai Llama one is good http://dalai-lama.perbang.dk) and asked them to compare the different tests. This was all done over 3 sesssions, 4 and a half hours. This was a very popular activity...and the success ratio was 12/15, pretty damn good I thought.)
Somali culture
(Somalians are an ethnic group here in Finland) The info was split into political and cultural facts about the country. The class split into two groups to take out the most interesting facts. Then the groups presented to each other, with open questions invited from the opposite groups. The class were generally quite surprised at the reality of the situation in Somalia and the variety of the cultural heritage. Breaking down barriers is never a bad thing....
Mrs Doubtfire
(a spontaneous video activity, no preparation time, is to ask the students to come up with 10 questions about things in the film for the other students to guess the answer to (10 minute clip). This is good because they think of the questions, and they can discuss each others answers. You can play the film back afterwards if you need to. The questions can be about dialogue, the set and props, or about plot etc...You do get some repetition in the questions, but you can skip over them.
Golf
Found a great web site with tips on improving your swing...made the golfers in the class very happy


If some of the students don't find the topic that interesting, they at least know that they can dictate the agenda themselves at some point. It's also a good way of getting to know what your students are interested in.

Good luck with future classes

Mark

Hiya,

I know it's too late now but I had a difficult business class once and I was going bananas trying to figure out how to motivate them. I had to teach them regardless. Their attendance dropped but I just kept trying.

I usually pass out an information sheet to them so I can get to know them better and see what interests they like. I ask questions about how long they have been working at the company and what they're hobbies are and how many years of English they have learned.

I found later that I should have tried to focus more on their interests rather than on my own stuff. Some of it was good but with reluctant students, it's better to make a few lessons out of what they are interested in. I had to use a textbook but I did away with it cuz they hated it.

I have had classes like this as well.

Basically there is a three-pronged approach (attack being the best form of defence, etc)

(1) A Good Needs Analysis
get your students to fill out a needs analysis form and them try to work your curriculum around this. If they say they want to do grammar, give them it. If they need practice speaking, give them e.g. problem-solving activities for discussion....

(2) Involve students in the curriculum planning
Work out what you want to do and when. Write/type it on an OHP sheet and show students what you have planned. Point out their suggestions (as per needs analysis) and ask if anyone has any further suggestions or if there are any changes to be made. Write the changes on the sheet, type them up and redistribute it in the next class. Students will be able to see what they will be doing, and when - for example:

February 18th:
English on the 'phone
- useful phrases, language analysis
- taking and leaving messages
- listening comprehension
- role plays

Grammar - looking at the past
- review of the simple past/present perfect

or something like that. Yes, it's a bit 'block-y' but business students often like the feeling that there is a framework, a master plan. Of course, all of these areas run into one another, but having a course plan lets you all know where you stand and students can see that you have taken their wishes into consideration.

(3) Push responsibility for students' learning back on the students:
If they are lethargic and pulling faces at your oh-so-dull lesson, hold up the evaluation sheets (which you carry with you in your class file) and say in a very sweet but firm voice "But Yvonne, you said you wanted to practise telephone skills..." Ask students to tell you specifically what they need and want. Tell them you can't read minds. Emphasize that you welcome suggestions and feedback but you will not accept eye-rolling and sulks (or words to that effect). If your texts are boring - delegate. I tell students to find something on the internet that they think is interesting and relevant to their job. Difficult students have often become very pliable and interested when given the responsibility of 'planning' the next lesson's content (they have to show me it before class though) and it helps them realise how darned difficult it is to please all of the people, all of the time.

Sweet but firm, that's my motto!

Hello everyone,

I'm glad this thread has revived. We've all 'been there' at one time or another and this thread gives us a great opportunity to learn from one another.

One objective I have with business people is to get them to think 'Ah! This is useful!' In the first lesson, I usually look at typical communication problems and misunderstandings along with 'tried and tested' strategies to overcome them. In other lessons, I do the same as Rania and follow their requests. As well as reviewing the list when there is a problem, it's useful to look at the list half way through the course and, especially, at the end (so they know that you have delivered what they asked for. Vital if you want more work from their company!)

Business clients also appreciate practical things to help them : a list of 10 useful expressions for meetings, an aide-memoire on telephone expressions (that they can put next to their phone), a short but well though out list of typical restaurant dishes so they know what to order (or what to avoid), etc.

Finally, I want to say that I also agree with Rania about getting the students to take responsibility for their own learning. If they want to know how a word is translated into their L1, I ask them to bring a dictionary next time. I explain that, as a trainer, I'm not there to give them answers but to train them to get the answers for themselves.

What are your ideas?