black stomach

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Itasan
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Location: Yokohama, Japan

black stomach

Post by Itasan » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:45 am

black stomach

This is a literal translation of a Japanese expression. A Japanese-English dictionary has these: evil-minded; black-hearted; dark

Could you think of any other English words?

Thank you.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:59 am

bad to the bone
(just plain) evil
(wicked)

an animal
inhuman
a monster
scum

I feel that 'wicked' is losing its force.

The second of words and phrases might group describe people who have actually done dreadful, awful things (e.g. e.g. extremely vicious murder(s)).

tigertiger
Posts: 246
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Re: black stomach

Post by tigertiger » Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:45 pm

Itasan wrote:black stomach

This is a literal translation of a Japanese expression. A Japanese-English dictionary has these: evil-minded; black-hearted; dark

Could you think of any other English words?

Thank you.
From www.dictionary.com

black·guard Pron, Blaguard
n.
A thoroughly unprincipled person; a scoundrel.
A foul-mouthed person.

n : someone who is morally reprehensible; "you dirty dog" [syn: cad, bounder, dog, hound, heel]

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Fri Mar 03, 2006 10:01 pm

Itasan, do you want contemporary English equivalents (potentially, to the Japanese meaning), or old-fashioned/dated/archaic ones? (Good though on tigertiger for finding a word that resembles the Japanese one in at least form!).

I can't recall ever hearing or even reading 'blackguard', and the synonyms that my thesauruses are suggesting can all be used playfully (in fact, I suspect that is their primary use now)...so, if this 'black stomach' in Japanese is used to describe a TRULY evil person, not just a bit of a moral "reprobate", I'd suggest you still keep looking for alternatives. It would help if you could tell us if any (infamous? Contemporary?) Japanese people have ever been called 'black stomach' (what's that in romaji, and kanji? Kuroi...hara? Onaka?) or similar, and why (that is, if it is a general term of abuse, what earns it? Is it offensive, or playful, or just plain strange now and dated?).

Micheal Quinion gives an account of the word's history:
http://worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-bla3.htm

The OALD7 has an entry and a concise yet informative account of the origin of the word (at least on the CD-ROM version); the CALD1 also has an entry; the LDOCE4's entry and origin are both pehaps a bit too concise; and the Collins COBUILD on CD-ROM (incl. 3rd edition of dictionary) has no dictionary entry but a range of synonyms in its thesaurus section. (Unfortunately my New Oxford Dictionary and Thesaurus of English's CD-ROM doesn't seem to function on my new PC here).

Oxford: Ñ 'bl&gA;d; NAmE Ñ -gA;rd/ noun
(old-fashioned, BrE) a man who is dishonest and has no sense of what is right and what is wrong

Cambridge: noun [C] OLD-FASHIONED a person, usually a man, who is not honourable and has no moral principles

Longman: [countable] old use a man who treats other people very badly

COBUILD: noun scoundrel, *beep* (offensive), bounder (old-fashioned Brit. slang), rascal, rogue, swine, villain

BTW, from "reprobate", I came across some interesting phrases on the Cambridge CD-ROM's SMART thesaurus:

the lowest of the low
a nasty piece of work
the scum of the earth
a wolf in sheep's clothing

I have no idea if they are the equivalents you're looking for, but they are generally more forceful than e.g. the COBUILD synonyms.

Itasan
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haraguroi

Post by Itasan » Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:20 am

Thank you very much, fluffy, for asking.
1. The Japanese word is 'haraguroi' (his/her stomach is black).
2. I'm sure it refers to a TRULY evil person. 'A wolf in sheep's clothing' seems close. But this Japanese saying does not (verbally) mention the outside appearance, just saying about the inside character. (I'm sure it suggests that the outside look is not particularly evil, though.)
3. I think it has been used since long time ago. And it is still used by many people. Naturally, it wouldn't be said in the presence of the person(s) in question. Not "You are haraguroi" but "He is haraguroi" is frequently used I think.

Among those that I have so far seen, 'a wolf in sheep's clothing' seems to be the closest. What do you think? I'd be very happy if you could find some other. Thank you very much.

fluffyhamster
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Post by fluffyhamster » Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:26 am

Ah, right, haraguroi, that makes sense. I got the same three equivalents that you originally posted when I checked my Genius J-E dictionary, along with 'designing'...but 'designing' probably isn't the best keyword...how about these instead:

X seems? Is? (a bit)...

(cold and) calculating e.g. a cold and calculating killer

untrustworthy
unscrupulous
dishonest
devious
insincere
two-faced
false
(of a) phony
pretends to (be)...but isn't

(I wouldn't trust him/her further than you could throw him/her)
There's something (strange) about him/her (that I just don't like)...
I just don't like the look of him/her...
could be an axe murderer for all we know LOL

Just brainstorming here, it's a bit of a jumble. The person might not necessarily have done anything bad, but you think that they might, and/or might have done before. We also wouldn't say such things if the person was present.

BTW, the 'wolf' with big nasty teeth is inside, covered by a fluffy lambskin. :wink:

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