Your opinions on native languages
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Your opinions on native languages
Hi,
I am currently a student in a teaching credential program. I am interested in hearing how current teachers felt about supporting the native languages of ELL students. Do you think that it is important to support ELL's native language, or fully immerse them into the English language? I would love to hear your responses, have a chat, or even just an e-mail session. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Also, if I can get your name and position, that would be great. Thank you.
I am currently a student in a teaching credential program. I am interested in hearing how current teachers felt about supporting the native languages of ELL students. Do you think that it is important to support ELL's native language, or fully immerse them into the English language? I would love to hear your responses, have a chat, or even just an e-mail session. Your thoughts would be much appreciated. Also, if I can get your name and position, that would be great. Thank you.
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Well, it depends on the native language of the students, I suppose.
If there's a lot of overlap, such as between English and German, then new English words might in fact enhance their vocabulary in their mother-tongue, too, by giving them access to the less frequently used/more formal terms of Latin origin. And it might make them more familiar with words which have been absorbed from English into everyday usage within a German context - especially among the business community.
If there's a lot of overlap, such as between English and German, then new English words might in fact enhance their vocabulary in their mother-tongue, too, by giving them access to the less frequently used/more formal terms of Latin origin. And it might make them more familiar with words which have been absorbed from English into everyday usage within a German context - especially among the business community.
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It depends
There is a lot that depends on whether or not the child's L1 (primary language) is valued within their present society. For example, in Quebec, anglo children who are placed in a full-time French immersion program and who are gradually re-introduced to instruction in English over five years or so show no cognitive or academic loss as a result of instruction in their L2. This is because both French and English are valued languages in most of Canada, and these kids typically have parents who have the time, resources and interest in developing their linguistic abilities in French and English. HOWEVER, Spanish-speaking children living in the US who are given only instruction in English suffer from the resulting lack of instruction in Spanish. Spanish is NOT highly valued in most of the US. As a result, children of Spanish-speaking parents frequently "lose" their Spanish but never make gains in their English at the rate their English-speaking peers do. What we get are students who essentially do not have enough language that they can use as a tool for expression and thought. These kids lag way behind their peers in all academic areas.
In short, it depends where you are teaching. If you are teaching outside the US and where children are already immersed in their native language and cultures, probably an immersion model would be acceptable if not ideal. However, in the US, where most of the people look down on speakers of languages other than English, supporting ANY language development is crucial. This includes both English and your kids' L1.
I am a K-5 ELL teacher at a US public school, incidentally. Currently I am working with a group of Spanish speaking kids who have no literacy skills in either English or Spanish.
In short, it depends where you are teaching. If you are teaching outside the US and where children are already immersed in their native language and cultures, probably an immersion model would be acceptable if not ideal. However, in the US, where most of the people look down on speakers of languages other than English, supporting ANY language development is crucial. This includes both English and your kids' L1.
I am a K-5 ELL teacher at a US public school, incidentally. Currently I am working with a group of Spanish speaking kids who have no literacy skills in either English or Spanish.
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your opinion on native languages
I think that there needs to be at least one person on the school's staff, weather it's a janitor or a teachers' assistant, or even a teacher who can speak the students' native language. It's hard enough for the students that don't know English to learn in a regular class. How else can you know what's going on if no one can communicate with you? I think that at a middle school or high school level it is okay to have classes, such as literature or grammar, in both languages. For elementary students, I'd stick to the predominate language in the school. Spanish is a valuable language here in Wisconsin, so is Hmong. If these children can use both fluently, the better off they'll be in the future, because the majority of immigrants here are from Mexico and refugee camps in Viet Nam.
Interesting replies, especially the one about the janitor speaking the children's first tongue.
The problem I have with stances like this, and the opinion so common in China where locals feel they only understand explanations given in their native tongue is this:
this presupposes that the learner UNDERSTANDS everything in his first language. This is an illusion, though. As you all know, you don't per se understand grammar instruction in English because the terminology is a metalanguage, i.e. the names given to these concepts are practically foreign to you.
You learn to understand by doing exercises and listening to explanations, then proceeding to analyse. Theory and practice are holding hands with each other.
Likewise, L2 teaching does not, and should not, revolve around making concepts more easily accessible through the medium of the learner's native language. The learner must learn more than the approrpaite vocabulary; he also must learn TO THINK DIFFERENTLY.
I believe, neither in China nor in the U.S.A> is this understood properly. It is not a good idea to make learning too easy for the learner; the learner must in the final analysis make his own contribution, and that is to change his mindset. This is the biggest hurdle, and many a learner is probably unable to take it; however, we all must accept that some can acquire a second and even a third language, while others cannot. We are not all equally endowed with the gift for language acquisition. Ditto for maths or sciences. Parents, teachers and students must live with the fact that there is no biological, mental identity.
Thus, my point is that teaching a target language should as much as possible be without the input from a speaker's preferred language. Of course, we must not set out with the wrong goals in teaching an L 2; at the beginning the students must familiarise themselves with the same basics they acquired in their native tongue years before. Don't teach grade 1 English learners how to use a computer in English! You start with topics that have intrinsic meaning to them at their age.
The problem I have with stances like this, and the opinion so common in China where locals feel they only understand explanations given in their native tongue is this:
this presupposes that the learner UNDERSTANDS everything in his first language. This is an illusion, though. As you all know, you don't per se understand grammar instruction in English because the terminology is a metalanguage, i.e. the names given to these concepts are practically foreign to you.
You learn to understand by doing exercises and listening to explanations, then proceeding to analyse. Theory and practice are holding hands with each other.
Likewise, L2 teaching does not, and should not, revolve around making concepts more easily accessible through the medium of the learner's native language. The learner must learn more than the approrpaite vocabulary; he also must learn TO THINK DIFFERENTLY.
I believe, neither in China nor in the U.S.A> is this understood properly. It is not a good idea to make learning too easy for the learner; the learner must in the final analysis make his own contribution, and that is to change his mindset. This is the biggest hurdle, and many a learner is probably unable to take it; however, we all must accept that some can acquire a second and even a third language, while others cannot. We are not all equally endowed with the gift for language acquisition. Ditto for maths or sciences. Parents, teachers and students must live with the fact that there is no biological, mental identity.
Thus, my point is that teaching a target language should as much as possible be without the input from a speaker's preferred language. Of course, we must not set out with the wrong goals in teaching an L 2; at the beginning the students must familiarise themselves with the same basics they acquired in their native tongue years before. Don't teach grade 1 English learners how to use a computer in English! You start with topics that have intrinsic meaning to them at their age.
Support?
Good morning all, hope there are Happy Holidays waiting for everyone.
I'm not sure I totally understand the original question. What is meant by supporting the student's native language?
As most of you already know, I teach ESL in Spain, both in an academy and in a parochial grade school. Since I consider teaching a vocation over the subject I teach, I certainly "support" Spanish as the student's native language. If a student forgets to peg on an "h" or an accent, I certainly correct this error in his/her Spanish. Though my main objectives concern the learning of English, I will not overlook general educational values such as the native language, or correct classroom behavior, or cultural concepts usually found in Social Studies. Though I have no doubts about the value of inmersion in ESL, my reality is not one of inmersion and faking such inmersion through an English Only attitude in the classroom is not to the advantage of my students. The contact time is just not long enough, two hours a week will never be inmersion.
What prompted me to add my two cents has been Roger's comments on thinking differently. Why, just yesterday I told a group of adults that it is not so much that they need to think in English as it is think as an Englishman would, or even as an American. Language is, at least for me, the external manifestation of internal thought processes. Although we are giving the same information when asked a factual question, such as "How old are you?", that is, a number that represents the number of years that have gone by since our emergence into the world from the womb, the way that question is asked and the way the answer is given differs from language to language. In English we are this or that age, while in Spanish they have that or this age. If I am not mistaken, there are even cultures that include the nine or so months in mum's belly as part of the total that makes up their age. These different ways of seeing or experiencing reality abound among different languages. So, where a Spanish person might simply say "change the cat box", an American person might be offended at not having heard "Would you please change the cat box?" This American might also be abashed at the Spaniard who insists on chatting in the elevator when that Spaniard ought to be looking at the upper left corner of the rising box in silence, pretending that he/she is totally alone. The Spaniard who always enjoys sunny weather doesn't always understand the use of weather talk often employed by the English, who always seem to have more weather than anyone else in the world.
I've been asked what I miss of my own culture. Hmmm, I think, well, I miss seeing good theatre frequently. Besides that, I never ask for anyone to bring me anything from the States. I make my shopping list in Spanish. I celebrate holidays in a Spanish fashion, eating Spanish food (I don't insist on turkey and pumpkin pie, but rather have sea-food and turrón), Thanksgiving is a past experience for me that I don't even bother to explain to Spaniards beyond its cultural significance and consequent vocabulary, or as an example, another one, of how important "Please, and thank-you, you're welcome" is to English speaking people. I was finally granted residency in Spain because I was able to demonstrate that not only had I been living here since before 1998, but that I have put down roots (the special program under which I was granted my residency is called araigo, which means just that, being rooted). Even getting my driver's license last summer was more a question of thinking like a Spanish driver than my own 27 years of driving experience.
Well, as usual, I've gone on and on, perhaps not answering the question, but well, since no one seems to mind, I thank you for the opportunity!
peace,
revel.
I'm not sure I totally understand the original question. What is meant by supporting the student's native language?
As most of you already know, I teach ESL in Spain, both in an academy and in a parochial grade school. Since I consider teaching a vocation over the subject I teach, I certainly "support" Spanish as the student's native language. If a student forgets to peg on an "h" or an accent, I certainly correct this error in his/her Spanish. Though my main objectives concern the learning of English, I will not overlook general educational values such as the native language, or correct classroom behavior, or cultural concepts usually found in Social Studies. Though I have no doubts about the value of inmersion in ESL, my reality is not one of inmersion and faking such inmersion through an English Only attitude in the classroom is not to the advantage of my students. The contact time is just not long enough, two hours a week will never be inmersion.
What prompted me to add my two cents has been Roger's comments on thinking differently. Why, just yesterday I told a group of adults that it is not so much that they need to think in English as it is think as an Englishman would, or even as an American. Language is, at least for me, the external manifestation of internal thought processes. Although we are giving the same information when asked a factual question, such as "How old are you?", that is, a number that represents the number of years that have gone by since our emergence into the world from the womb, the way that question is asked and the way the answer is given differs from language to language. In English we are this or that age, while in Spanish they have that or this age. If I am not mistaken, there are even cultures that include the nine or so months in mum's belly as part of the total that makes up their age. These different ways of seeing or experiencing reality abound among different languages. So, where a Spanish person might simply say "change the cat box", an American person might be offended at not having heard "Would you please change the cat box?" This American might also be abashed at the Spaniard who insists on chatting in the elevator when that Spaniard ought to be looking at the upper left corner of the rising box in silence, pretending that he/she is totally alone. The Spaniard who always enjoys sunny weather doesn't always understand the use of weather talk often employed by the English, who always seem to have more weather than anyone else in the world.
I've been asked what I miss of my own culture. Hmmm, I think, well, I miss seeing good theatre frequently. Besides that, I never ask for anyone to bring me anything from the States. I make my shopping list in Spanish. I celebrate holidays in a Spanish fashion, eating Spanish food (I don't insist on turkey and pumpkin pie, but rather have sea-food and turrón), Thanksgiving is a past experience for me that I don't even bother to explain to Spaniards beyond its cultural significance and consequent vocabulary, or as an example, another one, of how important "Please, and thank-you, you're welcome" is to English speaking people. I was finally granted residency in Spain because I was able to demonstrate that not only had I been living here since before 1998, but that I have put down roots (the special program under which I was granted my residency is called araigo, which means just that, being rooted). Even getting my driver's license last summer was more a question of thinking like a Spanish driver than my own 27 years of driving experience.
Well, as usual, I've gone on and on, perhaps not answering the question, but well, since no one seems to mind, I thank you for the opportunity!
peace,
revel.
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- Posts: 202
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:11 pm
The reason I said even a janitor is because the kids need to know that there is someone there who can help them, and that they can tell important things to in their native language. I work with elementary students, and I've been told in Spanish that they lost teeth, what they did over vacation, etc. Another problemis recess, if someone is injured, who is going to help find out what happened if the child is too upset to use English? We've had older sutdents translate in these instances. Also, if parents come, Who will help them understand the school's policy? Since I'm also the translater here, it's me. Bigger schools may need more help than one part time bilingual aide.