Teacher Discussion Forums

Someone please help me. Which of the two sentences below is correct?

Too many cars is a big problem in Japan.

Too many cars are a big problem in Japan.

Well, here's an idiom that helps:

"Too many cooks spoil the broth"

If "Too many cooks" was singular we'd say "spoils" as in "he spoils", but we say "spoil" - so we know it's definitely plural.

Iain

Well, "too many cooks do spoil the broth", but "the broth does not spoil too many cooks".

Whereas "too many cars..." is a subject and one problem; turn it around:
"The problem is (that there are) too many cars."

Yeah but,

I think "Too many cooks spoil the broth." is a different kind of sentence than "Too many cars is a problem in Japan." Iain is certainly correct that spoil here is plural. But how would it work if we said, "Too many cooks is a problem in the kitchen." The key, I believe, is in the predicate noun phrase, "a problem...", which is clearly singular since only one problem is identified. Link that to the subject, "Too many cooks", and we ought to conclude we have a singular subject.

The original question in this thread is flawed. It is not a matter of which sentence is correct, since both are. But each one means something different.

1. Too many cars is a problem in Japan. is the more likely sentence and probably means that there is a problem in Japan that traffic is very heavy.

2. Too many cars are a problem in Japan. is somewhat awkward, but still correct, if it is meant that certain rather commonly found cars pose some kind of problem, perhaps as gross polluters, for instance.

1. Too many cars is a problem in Japan. is the more likely sentence and probably means that there is a problem in Japan that traffic is very heavy.

"[The fact that there are] too many cars is a problem in Japan"

2. Too many cars are a problem in Japan. is somewhat awkward, but still correct, if it is meant that certain rather commonly found cars pose some kind of problem, perhaps as gross polluters, for instance.

Along the lines that you described:

"Too many cars in Japan are causing a problem".

In this example the cars are the do-ers of the sentence, whereas the cars aren't active in the first example.

You could also say, but mean something else entirely

"Having too many cars in Japan is causing a problem".

Iain

I think we agree. But you put it more elegantly than I did.

Gee, shucks!

I couldn't have done it without you!

Iain

Larry Latham, Roger, and dduck--thanks for your help! Your responses really helped to clarify the different nuances of both sentences. I've been living in a foreign country for eight years, and my grammar skills have really gone downhill. Thanks again.


aepo

Just to add a little more.

1)The team is playing well.
2)The team are playing well.

In 1 we are thinking of the team as one group
In 2 we are thinking of the team as seperate individuals.

It seems that 1 is more popular in American English and 2 is more popular in British English.

Just a thought here. In "Too many cooks spoil the broth" is the subjunctive being used?

English doesn't really have a subjunctive, and the poor excuse we have is being eroded, in the UK at least, by some barely articulate football commentators, e.g.

"If I were you..." is gradually being replaced by "If I was you".

Iain

True that British English rarely uses the subjunctive now, but the proverb about the cooks originated a long time a go.
How about "It's a dog eat dog world". Why is the verb not in the third person singular?
Thanks. John.

How about "It's a dog eat dog world". Why is the verb not in the third person singular?

Interesting point. However, of course, the sentence verb is in 3sg form. "Dog eat dog world" appears to me to be a noun phrase complimenting the singular subject. My sense of it is that "dog eat dog" is some kind of compound adjective describing what kind of world it is. If I'm right, adjectives, to my recollection, have no sense of singular or plural. It's kind of like "book store" instead of "books store". Others of you may have a different intrepretation.

Dduck's point, however, about English not having a subjunctive is still valid. The first time I heard this was from Michael Lewis' The English Verb, which remains the seminal work in my view about the grammatical structure of verbs in the English language. I concur with dduck. English simply does not have a subjunctive...period. Dozens of out-of-date textbooks and studybooks notwithstanding. We seriously mislead and confuse our students by claiming that it does.

Larry Latham

Oops, sorry about that. Good point about the sentence verb.
For the subjunctive not existing, in Michael Swan's book"Practical English Usage", there are five sections on the use of the subjunctive. Granted they are rarely used.
Thanks for the replies all,
John.

For the subjunctive not existing, in Michael Swan's book"Practical English Usage", there are five sections on the use of the subjunctive.

Well, compare that to the Oxford Spanish Grammar book, which is half the length of Swan's effort - it's needs 16 pages to describe the Subjunctive... and it doesn't cover the Future Subjunctive, as it's virtually obsolete.

Iain