Medical ESP - Denists, Doctors

[tigertiger]

Oh, KatiaM....
I am trying to show you that in China the interest is in teaching 'Medical English' and that the linguist who teach use journals soley in their courses.
Yikes... how did we get on to this discussion, anyway... where is it taking us? Help.. clarification needed or... should be both move on?

Melodie

Some thoughts from a non medical background.

I am also in China. There is a figure of speach here 'deaf and dumb English'. Students can read , and write using very precise grammar and meaning. Many students have low speaking skills and even lower listening skills. I think it relates to education style here.
I.E. a child is an empty vessel to be filled with facts. When it is full to over flowing, keep pouring. Comprehension is less important than recall.
Many of my 'technical' students read lots of journals to increase vocab, and they know lots of technical terms. However both this 'high level' vocab, and the style of discourse in journals, is not everyday English.
So even if students could string a sentence together, they would confuse lay people.

Also the discussions on research analysis are unlikely to be suitable for the everyday use of the general practitioner.

[M.Hull]

Thank-you, tigertiger. This is exactly what I was trying to point out.

Melodie

[KatiaM]

Oh, KatiaM....
I am trying to show you that in China the interest is in teaching 'Medical English' and that the linguist who teach use journals solely in their courses.

Melodie, your post and the links you provide do not show this.

Your link is to a conference about teaching Medical English. It is the call for abstracts to this conference. Nowhere on your page does it advertise a course teaching ME using "journals solely." It does not advertise any courses for ME students. It is like this teacher's forum, teachers discussing their job, not a classroom.

A call for abstracts is not for a class in ME, it is a request to professionals who teach ME (the subject of the conference) to present their ideas to other professionals about teaching ME. It is like Dave asking us to join ESLCafe and discuss teaching English with him on a Teacher Discussion Forum. This is for teachers, not students.

Here is another professional seminar calling for abstracts:

http://www.msspr.net/abstracts.html

Note that it contains some of the same features of the one you posted. This is a professional conference, although for students to give them the feel of these important meetings of professionals. It is not a class teaching paleontology to students using only abstracts.

Here is a definition:

"A call for papers (CfP) is a method used in academic and other contexts for collecting book or journal articles or conference presentations. A CfP usually is sent to interested parties, describing the broad theme, the occasion for the CfP, formalities such as what kind of abstract (summary) has to be submitted to whom and a deadline."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_for_abstracts

Note the intention is to collect "book or journal articles or conference presentations." It is not calling for abstracts or students to teach a class, or dictating how classes in ME should be taught, it is calling for abstracts of papers to be presented to other professionals, not to the students they are teaching.

I don't know if it is a cause for concern that someone teaching ME has no experience with professional conferences and calls for abstracts. It is a broad field.

It seems strange that you dismiss any aspect of using journals when you are so unfamiliar with this part of the professional society of doctors.

I hope you make the effort to understand where you went wrong, and to understand what professional conferences are, including how the societies get papers, speakers and poster sessions filled.

I have included 4 additional links to calls for abstracts in the health professions. If you do a web search you will find thousands and thousands. They are a very important part of the field of medicine.

Without this we are not communicating well enough to move on.

http://www.preventivemedicine2006.org/abstracts.htm

http://www.asrm.org/Professionals/Meeti ... tracts.pdf

http://www.aap.org/profed/cfa.htm

http://www.im.org/AAIM/Meetings/AIMW06AbstractCall.htm

[M.Hull]

My dear KatiaM:
I do not why you are so hung up on what I do or do not know about abstracts,journals and conferences since I write them and present at them, myself. However, we do not know each other and I think that casting aspertions on what I do or do not know is not entirely appropriate here. I don't believe I have cast any on yours, but simply asked for dialogue.
Once more... I simply drew people's attention to the websites listed to show the focus of interest of the presenters WHO ARE THE TEACHERS OF CURRICULA THAT SOLELY USE ABSTRACTS AND JOURNAL READING/WRITING as their means of teaching. Purely linguistically based curricula. AS tigertiger has pointed out, this does not necessarily help one become competent in Medical English. This is where this forum was, I thought leading: to a discussion of merits of using different ideas or pedagogics. If you knew anything about my own teaching methodologies and courses (I write for myself and both write and teach for a number of universities), you would know I DO use abstracts, journals, research, etc. in my lessons - just not as the focus of the curriculum.
Whew! Last I will say to that. Let's get on to 'sharing' ideas, everyone.

Melodie

[mesmark]

On the subject of sharing ideas...

I've made a little progress with www.hospitalenglish.com over the past two weeks. There are now 4 disease state directors and 2 healthcare professional discussion articles for download. (The students' sections is still a little bare. )

I work with nursing school students at an intermediate level at best. I really didn't think more textbook or random medical vocabulary was the answer. So, I decided to write some short articles on various subjects for discussion. The vocabulary is focused on the topic at hand and the whole point is to convey information verbally on different medical conditions. Hopefully, this gives the student some confidence to speak on various subjects and those that strive for better English may spread their wings and fly.

I haven't had time to really explain the whole system on my site. So, in short, the articles are meant for medical professionals or those studying to be one. I assume the information isn't anything new to these students and so I'm not trying to teach them about the disease, I'm trying to teach them to talk about things they know.

If you have some time, I'd love for some feedback, suggestions, criticism... These articles go live in my classroom next week. So, after a few classes, I might have to make some changes.

Mark
www.hospitalenglish.com

[M.Hull]

Hi, Mark in Japan:
I popped into your website. Nicely done. I just have one question... where did you get the term 'disease state directors' from and what exactly does the term mean? It is not something I am familiar with in Canada.

Melodie

[mesmark]

Melodie - I made that term up. to describe my system.

I hope to have 4 articles up on as many disease states as possible. The 4 articles are going to be on 4 different aspects of the disease state:
- overview
- patient information
- medication to treat the disease
- counseling information on the medication

The last 2 may vary, depending on the disease.

The idea is at the end of 2 lessons, they will feel comfortable speaking on different aspects of the disease state, a disease state director. So, the unofficial definition is "a system that covers varying aspects of a disease and its management that enables medical professionals to speak in English on specific disease states."

Thanks for taking a look at them.

[M.Hull]

Hi, everyone:
The 2006 International Symposium on English for Medical Purposes is in Beijing next week: July 18 + 19,2006. KatiaM.... will you be there? Experts in EMP will be presenting their articles and research on the subject. Perhaps you would like to hear their opinions of who should teach this subject, why and how? To Liz, KatiaM, TigerTiger and Mark: I hope to see you, too in Beijing and we can finally meet face-to-face. Great!

Everyone who visits this Message Board and is involved in EMP, please come and introduce yourselves in Beijing. This symposium promises to be FANTASTIC for professional development and networking. I look forward to meeting you all! I'll be speaking on July 18th, if you're interested. (You can contact the Symposium through their own Message on this website.)

See you in China!

Melodie Hull
Nurse-Educator & Consultant
Canada

[alexcase]

Re: teaching medical English with no medical knowledge. The great thing about it being medicine rather than chemical distribution is that there are so many interesting books (popular science and investigative journalism) about it written for laymen you can easily read to improve your knowledge and understanding of medical vocabulary. Ditto with watching ER etc. More details on how to painlessly improve your knowledge of ESP here:

http://tefltastic.wordpress.com/2011/06 ... s-english/

And some stuff I have produced through my reading without having a medical background here:

http://tefltastic.wordpress.com/workshe ... l-english/

[M.Hull]

Hi, Alex Case:
I read your comment with interest. I tried to look at a sample of your material on Using English.com, but its not available without a fee. I did see material by someone named 'Sam'. Wow,..... sooooo many mistakes. It is clear to see he has no background in Medical English and is trying to fake his way through it. While I honestly do appreciate your own professional approach to ESL (as evidenced on your webpage), I wonder what your 'Medical English' looks like?
Melodie
Nurse-Educator, TESL & author

[alexcase]

I don't have any particular connection to UsingEnglish, my only contribution there being a post on Young Learners:

http://www.usingenglish.com/articles/us ... rners.html

which is free. My Medical English stuff in on my blog http://tefltastic.wordpress.com and onestopenglish.com

[M.Hull]

Hi, Alex:

Thank-you for steering me back to your website. Okay,.. I like most of your EMP activities but I wonder who they are written for? Who is your target group? Certainly this material will not be adquate to meet the needs of health professionals, but provides a good launching point. If you have doctors and nurses in your class for example, have you identified their personal goals for learning EMP?

Do you use your activities to supplement the rest of the lesson? I am thinking for example, about your Domino/Bingo(?) game. The language is quite technical (compared to some of your other examples), and I wonder if you teach that prior to engaging in the game? Just curious.

I'd also like to say 'good on ya'' for offering free materials on the net.

Bye for now,
Melodie in Canada

[alexcase]

I used all this stuff with people working in pharamceutical companies, but I am hoping it is of use to others such as researchers and people who work in hospitals as well- as supplementary stuff rather than as the basis for a whole course. If anyone has the chance to use any, feedback gratefully accepted here or on my blog

Cheers

Alex