English=imperialism?

[woodcutter]

In Korea, No.1 language teaching destination, there is a church on every corner, an ugly one, where maybe a temple used to be. There are burger joints and department stores, baseball games and cheerleaders, disco and rap. If you meet an enthusiastic student of English, you can make a good bet they are also a committed Christian. Many teachers do a little bit of preaching in class.

All government documents are inhumanly dull. British ones included.

[lolwhites]

In Korea, No.1 language teaching destination, there is a church on every corner, an ugly one, where maybe a temple used to be. There are burger joints and department stores, baseball games and cheerleaders, disco and rap.

But which came first? Are they playing baseball, eating burgers and converting to Christianity because they learned English, or are they enthusiastic about learning English because they're into the (for want of a better word) culture?

The two don't have to go hand in hand; when I learned Spanish it didn't make me want to convert to Catholicism, watch bullfights, dance sevillanas or eat morcilla (bleurgh!). Had I been a committted catholic with a taste for dancing, blood sausage and cruelty to animals, it might have motivated me to learn the language.

[revel]

Hey all!

I'm with lolwhites again, the idea of eating rice soaked and cooked in pig blood and then shoved into big guts and then hung on a dirty oak beam until it resembles, well, just thinking about it can turn one's stomach, though my Spanish friends just don't understand my aversion to this "delicacy" of Spanish cuisine. But I get around it all by being vegetarian! Don't eat snails, either, anyone out there know how to spell the word for dried snot....begins with a "b" and isn't in my Webster's.....

Besides the cullinary comments, I also agree with the "culture" before "language" arguement. Oh, how many students have I had who want to study ESL because of the Internet? Of course, one needn't speak English to order a hamburger and a shake at our local McDonald's, but all clients of that industry are well aware of its representing an important part of American "culture". Oh, don't know where I'm going with this one, going to have a siesta and go back to work.

peace,
revel.

[lolwhites]

On top of that, where I live there are Indian, Italian and Chinese restaurants round the corner from my house (not to mention food from many other countries in the town centre), the local newpaper offers classes in salsa and tango, my favourite cafe is run by a very friendly Italian called Raffaele who knows his customer by name, there is a mosque to accommodate the local muslim population and a cinema that shows lots of independent and foreign (i.e. non-English language) movies.

I appreciate that people in many parts of the world feel their culture is being driven out (and, to be fair, Cambridge also has its cinema multiplexes and Fastbucks "coffee" shops), but it really doesn't have to be that way.

[lolwhites]

Revel - snails only taste as good as the sauce they're cooked in. They can be yummy if the sauce is right.

[revel]

Hey lolwhites!

Are you Cancer, like me? When offered snails I have indeed turned down the little buggers but have asked for a plate of sauce to dip my bread into, have in this way tried a lot of yummy sauces, mmm mmm ggoodd!

peace,
revel.

[woodcutter]

That exposure to English language is going to create a situation where the culture of English language speaking nations is very well known and thus influential is hardly worth debating. Lolwhites argument is of the "I don't watch a coke commercial and run out and buy a can of coke - why advertise?" school of profound thought.

The only argument is to what degree this takes place. Yea, in Korea there are many factors at work. Still, if every place on this earth were like Korea, with church and English hand in hand, I am sure most people would agree with my point of view.

[lolwhites]

That's the point - not everywhere in the world is like Korea, which proves it doesn't have to be that way! Are Scandinavians any less scandinavian because they speak impeccable English?

[lolwhites]

According to Peter Trudgill in his book Socioliguistics, during the days of apartheid South Africa it was government policy to ensure that black South Africans were educated in their indigenous African languages rather than English. This was regarded by native Africans not as a way of preserving them from cultural imperialism but a way of isolating them from each other, from international contact and, indeed, any possibility of advancement.

Woodcutter, I think you simplify my argument somewhat. The spreading of English may have the potential for cultural imperialism, but whether or not it becomes reality is dependant on other factors.

Out of interest, do you worry about westerners turning to buddhism and eastern philosophies as much as you seem to about Koreans converting to Christianity? If they think it saves their souls, isn't it up to them so long as they don't foister their views on others? Having said that, I've no time for teachers who preach in class, though to my knowledge I've never met one. Any teacher who uses their class as a pulpit simply isn't doing their job.

[woodcutter]

Part of the problem here is with the loaded word "imperialism". Students of English are going to read English novels, watch CNN, read Anglo-saxon academic view points. They are going to be saturated in the world's most powerful culture. They are going to soak some up. They are going to change, even if the change is a small one. It isn't part of a worldwide plot by Karl Rove as far as I am concerned, but whether it is designed or not it has the effect of eroding other cultures - for powerful, advanced cultures always cause erosion when meeting less powerful cultures. An emphasis on the powerful outsiders' language can only speed it up.

Korea is the most extreme example, with the religious aspect (my wife is a christian, by the way, and I go to church!). There are few nations on earth not in a period of Americanization, however.

As to the black South Africans, yes, they wanted to be part of world culture, which is dominated by English. To be excluded from it, to be locked by other people into your own beautiful traditions, is to be denied the chance to earn money, and most people don't like it much.

Perhaps if the world language were not the language of the hyper-power, then I could agree with you. Let's all start teaching Finnish.