I am a volunteer helping a Korean man learn to speak English. He is committed and an excellent student, but I can't figure out how to explain when to use 'the'. Example - He is reading the Bible. Today he said, "I am reading the Mark." I told him it should be, "I am reading Mark." , but I can't tell him why. Any suggestions?
Thanks, BJ
use of 'the'
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fluffyhamster
- Posts: 3031
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You could point out such phrases as 'The Gospel according to (St.) Mark', and ask him why 'the' appears before 'gospel' (but not 'Mark').
You need to be wary of hammering home rules (not that you have or will) like 'the + name' is "wrong" (i.e. always wrong - it is only wrong here, in this very specific context); you can end up producing students who won't believe such structures are really possible. Here's one such example of this structure (and Metamorfose, by the way, is not such a student but rather an alert and serious teacher who clearly keeps a lookout for, notices and takes note of any illuminating examples that come his way):
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 3108#13108
It might be a good idea to become familiar with something like Raymond Murphy's (Essential) Grammar in Use books, or get a usage guide such as Swan's Practical English Usage if not an actual grammar such as the COBUILD English Grammar (good clear descriptions of the function - the meaning-uses - of forms).
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 1819#11819
Don't forget either that a lot of grammatical information can be gleaned from a good learner dictionary: the Macmillan English Dictionary especially provides some good guidance on the usage of the articles (Longman is also well worth a look, because everything is explicitly ordered according to frequency: the Longman is available online for free, as are the range of Cambridge EFL dictionaries).
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... =8561#8561
You need to be wary of hammering home rules (not that you have or will) like 'the + name' is "wrong" (i.e. always wrong - it is only wrong here, in this very specific context); you can end up producing students who won't believe such structures are really possible. Here's one such example of this structure (and Metamorfose, by the way, is not such a student but rather an alert and serious teacher who clearly keeps a lookout for, notices and takes note of any illuminating examples that come his way):
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 3108#13108
It might be a good idea to become familiar with something like Raymond Murphy's (Essential) Grammar in Use books, or get a usage guide such as Swan's Practical English Usage if not an actual grammar such as the COBUILD English Grammar (good clear descriptions of the function - the meaning-uses - of forms).
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... 1819#11819
Don't forget either that a lot of grammatical information can be gleaned from a good learner dictionary: the Macmillan English Dictionary especially provides some good guidance on the usage of the articles (Longman is also well worth a look, because everything is explicitly ordered according to frequency: the Longman is available online for free, as are the range of Cambridge EFL dictionaries).
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/teacher/v ... =8561#8561
use of "the"
"The" is a definite article that identifies a specific noun that is a place or thing, but not a person or an noun that represents one.
Re: use of "the"
I don't understand your explanation. How about, "I went to the bank and talked to the cashier."mgeist wrote:"The" is a definite article that identifies a specific noun that is a place or thing, but not a person or an noun that represents one.
Use of "the"
In reply to lorikeet's example, I think if we say "I went to the bank and spoke to the cashier" then we are assuming the person we're talking to knows which bank and which cashier we mean (hence definite article). Otherwise we could perhaps say "I went to a bank and spoke to a cashier", or "I went to the bank and spoke to a cashier" when things aren't so clear cut (indefinite article twice or a mix of definite and indefinite).
P.S.
This is my first time, so I hope this adds something to the discussion!
P.S.
This is my first time, so I hope this adds something to the discussion!
Re: Use of "the"
Actually, I think when we say, "I went to the bank and spoke to the cashier" the person we are talking to doesn't know which bank. However, the person who is talking knows, and the person who is listening knows it is the bank that the other person is going to, but still, not which one. I know that doesn't quite follow the "rule" but that's what it seems like to me. Also, "the cashier" could be any cashier in the bank, but it is the one that the person is going to talk to. If my husband says, "I'm going to the supermarket to get some bananas," I don't know which supermarket of several he is going to.Macavity wrote:In reply to lorikeet's example, I think if we say "I went to the bank and spoke to the cashier" then we are assuming the person we're talking to knows which bank and which cashier we mean (hence definite article). Otherwise we could perhaps say "I went to a bank and spoke to a cashier", or "I went to the bank and spoke to a cashier" when things aren't so clear cut (indefinite article twice or a mix of definite and indefinite).
P.S.
This is my first time, so I hope this adds something to the discussion!
Use of "the"
This all seems rather complicated to me! Sure I don't necessarily know what bank (e.g. Barclays) nor the location (e.g. Leeds city centre), but I know which one you mean - your bank (where you have your account) By saying "the cashier" I must be assuming some raised level of awareness or shared knowledge on the part of the interlocutor, otherwise why the definite article? Either by some context - I might have mentioned that I'll be asking my bank about a loan , and so the other person can deduce from this that "the cashier" means the person on the loans desk - or else I have already made reference using the indefinite article. Maybe I would have already said something like "I went to the bank and saw a cashier...........and anyway ,as I was saying, the cashier told me...." Or else I could use qualifying information, perhaps saying "I went to the bank and spoke to the cashier on the loans desk". This is my feeling, anyway 
As for the supermarket, I would assume my wife meant our regular one if she said this to me.
Wow, this is really good fun
Such a small word, and yet so much good discussion 
As for the supermarket, I would assume my wife meant our regular one if she said this to me.
Wow, this is really good fun
Such a small word, and yet so much good discussion "The" IS very complicated thats why it would seem so. Try explaining why it is THE Amazon river and THE Atlantic ocean but no "the" for Mt. Everest or Lake Michigan. There are a million rules for "the" and its quite overwhelming. In my opinion, its best to teach it as a general rule and not get into specifics till students are at a high level.
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BeautifulFerret
- Posts: 9
- Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:30 am
My two cents
When I hear, "I spoke to 'the' cashier, it implies to me that there was only one cashier.
For instance you can say, "I went to my son's school and spoke to a teacher" but you can't say, "I went to my son's school and spoke to a principal" since there is only one principal (at most schools, anyway).
Or the other option is that the speaker has already told me about this cashier.
But I definitely would avoid trying to teach it willy nilly and instead focus on one or two uses at a time.
For instance you can say, "I went to my son's school and spoke to a teacher" but you can't say, "I went to my son's school and spoke to a principal" since there is only one principal (at most schools, anyway).
Or the other option is that the speaker has already told me about this cashier.
But I definitely would avoid trying to teach it willy nilly and instead focus on one or two uses at a time.
I think these examples are excellent examples in which we just don't follow the rules. We usually say we are going to the bank or the supermarket and we spoke to the teller or the clerk or the cashier. We will seldom say it the proper way and therefore create an exception to the rule.
Of course, I don't know all the rules, I'm a native speaker and know many rules, but mostly just know how we speak.
Of course, I don't know all the rules, I'm a native speaker and know many rules, but mostly just know how we speak.