Speak like a native?

[jingjing^^/]

Hello!
The very idea of sounding native-like has been the dream of most second/foreign language learners. But it is really worth the effort? Nowadays, socio-linguists are talking about establishing our social identity by way of speaking our own dialects ...
Looking forward to your opinion ...
Best regards from Beijing, China

[shine422]

Dear Jingjing:
In my point of view, as a learner of English as a second language, that will be ok as long as the communication carries on smoothly. After all, language is a tool for communication. I think we don't need to achieve a native-like pronuncition. It's something desirable but not a requirement. As for speaking our dialects to establish our own identity, it's another extreme. In my opinion, again, language is for communication. If we want to show our separate identity, we don't need to rely on the language, because if so, language will lose its true meaning and function. We can show it by other means, for example, our dressing, our way of treating people, and some norms in our culture, ect.

[metal56]

Hello!
The very idea of sounding native-like has been the dream of most second/foreign language learners. But it is really worth the effort? Nowadays, socio-linguists are talking about establishing our social identity by way of speaking our own dialects ...
Looking forward to your opinion ...
Best regards from Beijing, China

If you're understood, communicating your message, why bother trying to achieve the near impossible?

[JuanTwoThree]

I don't think native-like pronunciation is normally possible. Nor is it necessary. And I doubt if it's desirable.

I'm a Brit in Spain and there's no way of getting away from it. Apparently I even walk differently. I don't propose to lose my accent, ever. Here it's quite an important part of who and what I am.

[lolwhites]

It will depend on what your students need English for. I have students who want to be English teachers, and others who need it for business meetings with other non-native speakers. The former should at least aspire to sound as native-like as possible, the latter just need to be comprehensible.

[Miss Elenious]

Well, I've read that accent is the last fortress of a second language learner, a fortress that may never be looted by the second language. Second language learners give up their grammar, vocabulary, syntax for a new one so, subconsciously I think, hang on to their native accent as a last resort. I have a hard time convincing my adult students to do exercises of pronunciation because they're either too shy or can't stop laughing.

[jotham]

I beg to differ. I think a foreign language can be mastered and should be mastered as far as accent. Each language has its own flavor and spice: to not attempt the most authentic expression of the language is to miss a significant cultural experience. I am a believer in excellence and competence in general. My striving for perfect English translates into other languages as well. I suppose people who snub their nose at high standards in English will take a similar approach when studying other languages. I've come to realize that when some foreigners speak bad English (after being exposed for a long time), it's not necessarily because of a language barrier, but many times because of a motivation barrier: there isn't the curiosity or excitement to improve and perfect. This barrier isn't limited only to a second language. Such people often communicate badly in their own language to boot.

[Lorikeet]

I think the ability to refine your pronunciation is partly in the genes! People who are able to do accents in their own language, who have an "ear" for language in general, are better able to copy new sounds. It helps if you aren't too afraid of making an effort too. I always tell my students when they practice something and then laugh, that laughing shows they are probably doing it correctly. They never laugh when they don't succeed. They only laugh when they get it right and it sounds funny to them.

[jotham]

That is precisely right. Many people, especially being adult, don't master an accent because they somehow think they are making fun of those speakers: they think they are being disrespectful when they attempt an authentic accent. A famous language learner, Barry Farber, who probably has the world record of learning languages fluently, said that if you can have a little fun and play with a German accent in English, making fun of it in a way, then you can speak German pretty well.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... binarybin/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Farber

[Eric18]

What is your goal? Why do you want to speak English? Who is your target audience?

From my perspective as a university instructor, solid insights often get generalized beyond their practical applications. You correctly note that many linguists, following the intellectual currents that priviliage group identity over personal achievement, discount the importance of even aspiring to speak like a fluent, native speaker. This idea sounds tolerant and enlightened, but also advocates restricting the employment and personal options for the second language learner.

If somebody wants to keep an accent and omit articles and misuse verb tense, they can still become a US citizen, work as a taxi driver, and support their families. But many of my students, often in graduate school, have far higher aspirations. They want to be understood at academic conferences, hope to teach at univesities, and run companies. Let's keep ideology out of the classrooms and encourage students to communicate as effectively as possible for the largest number of listeners. Be practical. Ignore the utopians. Focus on your audience.

After all, you want to be heard and understood. Why place more barriers in your path?

[lolwhites]

I managed to achieve near-native competence in Spanish, and even picked up the local accent (native Spanish speakers can still tell that I've lived in Andalucia), but it took several years' residence and a partner who didn't speak English. In fact, for four years I only spoke English when I was teaching it or phoning relatives.

It might also have helped that I never felt strongly about my roots, and didn't feel a need to hold onto my Wiltshire accent. Apparently I picked up a Scottish accent while studying at a university north of the border, so I seem to be able to pick up accents pretty easily. However, I accept that my case may be exceptional and not applicable to everyone. I do think it can be done.

Whether or not it's a realistic goal to expect students to sound like natives, there's surely no harm in encouraging students to aim high. The student who is satisfied with being more or less understandable will stay at that level while the student who aims to sound like a native will be doing pretty well even if he or she only gets half way there.

[Sure]

Understanding is the most important part of communication.

Smoothly speaking out our second language can be the most desirable thing in our output of the language.

[clio.gr]

As long as intonation is correct why would someone need to sound like a Brit or an Americna?

Moreover, I don't think that non natives can possibly sound like natives. Other genes, you know.

Take the UK for example. It is almost impossible for a lower class Brit to sound like an upper class one, and they are both British English native speakers.

So, communication is the issue here and as long as it is not blocked, I can't see the reason why my students put so much effort on sounding unnutural.

[Stephen Jones]

Other genes, you know.

Quite the opposite. The fact that first language acquisition is genetically determined means that everybody is capable of learning any language and speaking with any accent given the right environmental inputs.

In general for pronunciation there is considered to be a critical age. Some put it as low as six, based on research that people who move to one part of America from another after the age of six never get the exact answer of their new home, but the more important cut off point is puberty. It is rare for speakers to get a native-like accent when they learnt the language after puberty. They can get close enough that nobody notices though. When I was in France many people reckoned I was Belgian, whilst when in Belgium many reckoned I came from France

[lolwhites]

There was a time when Spanish people could tell that I'd lived in Andalucia from the accent I picked up in my early twenties. I'm not sure if it was "autentico" though, and I've probably lost it now.

I've had students who spoke English well enough for me not to be able to tell which country they were from; what gave away the fact that they weren't natives was that there was nothing in their accent to show where they'd grown up, what kind of school they'd gone to etc.