Sociolinguistic classification of languages

[Vytenis]

I want to ask can anyone share some thoughts or information about the sociolinguistic classification of the world's langugaes? I mean, ranking of the languages, according to their importance, not according to the number of native speakers or according to the geographical spread. Thus English is undoubtedly the number one language in today's world. Which is second? Which is third? And so on... Is it possible at all to provide such a classification??? Well, for me French looks like the number two language after English. What about the other great languages? German, Russian, Spanish, Arabic? What about Chinese? I mean, Chinese is THE biggeset language, but nobody will argue that it is more important in the world than say English or French? On the other hand, French has a relatively small number of speakers, but nobody will argue that Hindi is more important than French, just because Hindi has three times more the number of speakers than French... So I came to the conclusion that all these charts of "worlds greatest languages" which are bassed on the number of speakers, are so misleading... Any thoughts on that?

[szwagier]

I guess it all depends on how you define "importance". One rough and ready guide would be the number of non-native speakers who use the language, in which league, as you say, English presumably leads (at the moment), with Spanish(?) second, but does the fact that a lot of people use it make it important? Or just useful? And does it matter what it is used for?

A very intriguing question - time to put the thinking-cap on...

[Vytenis]

I think its not so much the number of non-native speakers, but the influence and power of the country where this language is spoken which really detemines the "impotrtance" of this particular language. Usually languages of the superpowers are the superlanguages. For example, back in the Cold War days, I guess Russian was one of the most important languages of the world (besides English, of course), since it was the language of the superpower. However, now after this superpower has collapsed, I think Russian is no longer as important as it used to be. Russians themselves are now studying English like mad (this was not common in the "superpower" days) Spanish is a huge language no doubt, but there is no Spanish-speaking superpower. The same with Arabic (unless we call the collective "Arab world" as a kind of a superpower, which I do doubt after the Iraq war). What else? French may be second only to to English in the world, but France is also no longer a superpower it used to be. The influence of French is diminishing too. The real rival for English might be Chinese, since China is HUGE and its power and influence is growing. However, one obstacle is that these characters are too difficult for others to learn, if Chinese would use Roman alphabet, then things might be different. So I think it is more likely that Chinese will learn English rather than the world will learn Chinese. German is a great language too, but nowadays you can live in Germany for years without knowing a word of German - most of them would speak to you in English anyway, even if you do know "ein bishen Deutsch" So practically I see no other language that would in any way be near English in terms of "social importance". At least for a present.

[wjserson]

One of the problems in answering your question is that it is almost completely subjective (as are many discussions held here on this forum). One can attempt to count the amount of speakers of a given language and place each language on a list of most spoken languages of the world. This has already been done plenty of times.

But when you ask which one is the most "Important", the answer could be another question : "What do you classify as important?"

[Vytenis]

Wjerson,

Yes, this may be subjective. I doubt whether it is at all possible to give the precise rating of the world langugaes according to their "social importance" in the world. The mere number of speakers does not provide us with a very illuminating picture, I'm afraid. I think the only real criterium should be political and/or economic and/or cultural influence of those countries where this particular language is spoken. The language of a world superpower is automatically an "important" langugae in the world. English is a good example. If not for USA as a world superpower, I don't think English would be nearly as powerful and as widespread as it is now. What are the other world superpowers whose languages are worth learning besides English?

[Vytenis]

The only internet resourse known to me that elaborates on this subject is this:

http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm

Does anybody know any other?

[Duncan Powrie]

Szwagier is surely onto something by saying that the number of non-native USERS (and in turn, the number of USES to which they put it) must be among the main factors in determining how "important" a language is; and although this number will obviously initially reflect and follow the fortunes and influence of whichever country originally "owned" and "exported" the language (which is what Vytenis seems to be arguing), I'd like to think (if I can be an idealistic/politically naive humble English teacher/linguist) that once the users reach a certain "critical mass" (to borrow a phrase from economic history), perhaps questions of power and status of the language will fade away as its UTILITY to this large (and presumably still growing) group of users themselves becomes ever more obvious - which is what seems to be happening (or have happened already) with English.

[Vytenis]

Can the same be said about Russian. It is also very widely used in almost all the post-USSR countries and even in some east-european countries of the former Communist block. Can we assume that it has reached this "criticall mass" that you mentioned or that it is still a very much politically charged language?

[Duncan Powrie]

Yes, there are many users of Russian, so there is a "critical mass" there, but there aren't that many truly foreign users (removed not only geographically but also politically) using it for as many purposes as English around the ECONOMIC "hub" that America still is/provides. So, I think you will need to wait until Russia extends her influence further beyond Europe/Eurasia, perhaps by (more) conquest/colonisation, or better still, establishing another far-removed base for Russian that prospers (as the English settlers did in America - this involved more genocide than conquest, though, that thankfully wasn't entirely successful!) or liberation/liberalism-as-conquest (like America! I am tempted to allude to Francis F*k*yama, but this is an English-teaching forum!), and therefore somehow makes, coerces or attracts more foreign peoples to begin using it. I guess Russia missed it's chance in the age of exploration, before the invention of nuclear weapons complicated land-grabs too much . Anyway, I'm sorry if my line of reasoning still makes English "top dog", but it is a posteriori (I haven't really thought about this particular idea before, only about English as AN (not THE) "international language").

[Vytenis]

I guess Russia missed it's chance in the age of exploration, before the invention of nuclear weapons complicated land-grabs too much .

I cannot agree with that. Russia (or USSR) was one of the biggest imperialist conquerors in the XX century. And to some extent it remeins so even now, although its influence has significantly diminished. Therefore Russian language was widespread among various nations around the world who embraced Soviet/Russian influence (like Cuba, East Germany, Vietnam, N. Korea, many African countries etc.). So geographically it was quite removed from Russia. Maybe you are right that it was not so much <b>politically</b> removed as English is nowadays. Can you give me some more example sof "politically removed" global languages besides English?

[costas]

. If not for USA as a world superpower, I don't think English would be nearly as powerful and as widespread as it is now. What are the other world superpowers whose languages are worth learning besides English?

According to your criterium, I don't know any other language which meets it. You then need other reasons in order to learn more language - geographical situation, for your job, etc.. -

Bye