Hi,
I already posted, but hopefully this post, about a different topic, will yield more replies.
Every morning, I teach a class at 7 a.m. It's the same class everyday. Most of the classes at the school begin at 8:10, but this is an extra class for these students. The class is going okay, and I am working on ironing out some glitches, such as students not speaking enough, talking while others are speaking, not participating...I have ideas on how to make these things better. However, there is something which I do not know how to "solve" and that is this....
The students often do homework in my class. In fact, most of them do, everyday. As I said in a previous post, the students are in class from 7 a.m. to around 9 p.m. It has been brought to my attention that they get a lot of math and science homework, pages and pages, everyday...they also have little time to do it, especially if they want to sleep. I don;t want them doing it in my class, and have put my foot down a few times...on the other hand, I feel the true problem lies with them receiving too much work, and not having enough time to complete it. If they can't complete it, their teachers will get angry, and i'm sure it will affect their grade. Seeing as my class is an extra one, I really can empathize with them, and feel the situation is unfair. On the other hand, it makes for an ineffective class when the students aren't paying attention. I am angry at the teachers/school for putting them and me in this situation. I don't know what to do...any ideas? Should I just ban the homework completely, with no discussion, even though it is very hard for them to finish it all? I don;t see either a) being lenient or b) taking up more of their time as being valid options, either of them . Please help! thanks.
doing homework in class-please help!
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
banning homework
Hi, Sian
thanks for your reply. Yes, the ideal situation would be to ban the homework....however....Call me a softie, but this is China...the students are loaded down with work every minute of the day. They also have class all day Saturday, and most of the day on Sunday. I don't assign homework, because I don't know when they'd do it. I don't want to be in the position of teaching and allowing this though...the best situation would be if they were to receive less homework, or if the oral English class was optional. Then I'd ban it....tomorrow, I'm going to talk to someone a the school about it.
thanks for your reply. Yes, the ideal situation would be to ban the homework....however....Call me a softie, but this is China...the students are loaded down with work every minute of the day. They also have class all day Saturday, and most of the day on Sunday. I don't assign homework, because I don't know when they'd do it. I don't want to be in the position of teaching and allowing this though...the best situation would be if they were to receive less homework, or if the oral English class was optional. Then I'd ban it....tomorrow, I'm going to talk to someone a the school about it.
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
softie
I underatnd I'm a softie, and need to lay down the law, etc. But this doesn't get to the underlying problem. Am I supposed to say, "oh well, not my problem, let the students deal"? Or what? somewhere there's a balnce there, and that's what I'm looking for. thanks for replying.
Hi everyone,
Sita and Glenski are approaching the situation from another angle – namely, what will happen if the teacher doesn’t put his foot down NOW and insist that homework be done outside of class? Possibly the designated English class will become a form of study class, and the teacher will be the superfluous foreigner that hangs around in the background.
However, the original poster most likely knows this already. I don’t think you are a ‘softie’, either – you have simply recognized that your students are ‘between a rock and a hard place.’ I doubt that they are doing their homework as a deliberate ploy to undermine the teacher – my guess would be that they are desperate. Their workload sounds crucifying.
(1) Change the system – well, that’s not going to happen quickly, is it? I can’t imagine your fellow teachers will be willing to change. So you unfortunately have to accept that the students aren’t going to have less work to do in the foreseeable future.
(2) Adapt to the system (and later have the system adapt to you). Firstly, of course, you have to make it clear to students that you understand they have a lot to do, but English class is not the place to do it. Tell them that you are free to prepare an enjoyable class for them, but if they use the time to do other things, they will have to cover the English curriculum outside class – i.e. in the form of homework.
I was in a similar situation to you and found that the students were too influenced by the system – they weren’t able to learn independently. If it didn’t end with a test, it wasn’t a real course. So I ended up having to fight with the school authorities to have English recognized as a ‘real’ subject, so the students would be tested at the end of the semester and their results entered in their end-of-year report (the first time I ever wanted my students to have to do exams!). Within the framework of my classes, I did conversational English, speaking activities, listening comp, etc. but changed it a little to make it slightly more formal, so students – and other members of staff – took it seriously. (Yes – talk about psychology!)
What else can you do?
Can you integrate the students’ homework into your lesson? Can they explain what they are doing in other courses?
I think you are planning to take students outside for the hour – great idea. I’ll post some suggestions for same in the other thread.
Work with activities that involve physical movement or puzzle solving or model building – if you are moving around and using your hands, it’s hard to do homework at the same time.
Take the hard line and confiscate the homework- books, papers and all. Really mean and very tough, but after that students mightn’t be so keen on doing their homework in your class.
If I can think of anything else I’ll post it – but it’s a hard situation…
Sita and Glenski are approaching the situation from another angle – namely, what will happen if the teacher doesn’t put his foot down NOW and insist that homework be done outside of class? Possibly the designated English class will become a form of study class, and the teacher will be the superfluous foreigner that hangs around in the background.
However, the original poster most likely knows this already. I don’t think you are a ‘softie’, either – you have simply recognized that your students are ‘between a rock and a hard place.’ I doubt that they are doing their homework as a deliberate ploy to undermine the teacher – my guess would be that they are desperate. Their workload sounds crucifying.
(1) Change the system – well, that’s not going to happen quickly, is it? I can’t imagine your fellow teachers will be willing to change. So you unfortunately have to accept that the students aren’t going to have less work to do in the foreseeable future.
(2) Adapt to the system (and later have the system adapt to you). Firstly, of course, you have to make it clear to students that you understand they have a lot to do, but English class is not the place to do it. Tell them that you are free to prepare an enjoyable class for them, but if they use the time to do other things, they will have to cover the English curriculum outside class – i.e. in the form of homework.
I was in a similar situation to you and found that the students were too influenced by the system – they weren’t able to learn independently. If it didn’t end with a test, it wasn’t a real course. So I ended up having to fight with the school authorities to have English recognized as a ‘real’ subject, so the students would be tested at the end of the semester and their results entered in their end-of-year report (the first time I ever wanted my students to have to do exams!). Within the framework of my classes, I did conversational English, speaking activities, listening comp, etc. but changed it a little to make it slightly more formal, so students – and other members of staff – took it seriously. (Yes – talk about psychology!)
What else can you do?
Can you integrate the students’ homework into your lesson? Can they explain what they are doing in other courses?
I think you are planning to take students outside for the hour – great idea. I’ll post some suggestions for same in the other thread.
Work with activities that involve physical movement or puzzle solving or model building – if you are moving around and using your hands, it’s hard to do homework at the same time.
Take the hard line and confiscate the homework- books, papers and all. Really mean and very tough, but after that students mightn’t be so keen on doing their homework in your class.
If I can think of anything else I’ll post it – but it’s a hard situation…
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
respect
Sian,
While I do appreciate you responding to my posts, your cursory respones kind rub me the wrong way. Point well taken about being a softie, but as you know very little to nothing about me or my class, I think you are way too hasty in deciding that "My students have lost all repsect for me".
Without getting into a discussion about respect, or my relationship with my students, I'd like to say that the overworking of the students at Chinese schools is (in my view) a serious problem and one which affects the classrooms and teachers alike. That is why I believe that the way to deal with the problem is more complicated than me just getting stricter with the students, even if that is part of the "solution".
I came to these forums for ideas and suggestions, not to receive judgments about my teaching, and not to hear what my students think about me- I already know. so while I honestly do appreciate the time you have taken to think about the concerns I have posted, I was looking for something more constructive. Thanks.
While I do appreciate you responding to my posts, your cursory respones kind rub me the wrong way. Point well taken about being a softie, but as you know very little to nothing about me or my class, I think you are way too hasty in deciding that "My students have lost all repsect for me".
Without getting into a discussion about respect, or my relationship with my students, I'd like to say that the overworking of the students at Chinese schools is (in my view) a serious problem and one which affects the classrooms and teachers alike. That is why I believe that the way to deal with the problem is more complicated than me just getting stricter with the students, even if that is part of the "solution".
I came to these forums for ideas and suggestions, not to receive judgments about my teaching, and not to hear what my students think about me- I already know. so while I honestly do appreciate the time you have taken to think about the concerns I have posted, I was looking for something more constructive. Thanks.
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
Rania's ideas
Rania,
I just read your post after my last post. Thank you so much for your ideas and advice. I think you really hit the nail on the head. These are good kids who really do have a desire to learn English, but they are pretty desperate to get all of their homework done for fear of being yelled at. I agree with you that I need to take the hardline...and otherwise just be as supportive as I can. These are students who live at the school,as they have received scholarships and are from other provinces. I see them often and have become pretty close with the class. Therefore, it is hard for me to be detached from the situation.
Your ideas about trying to integrate the homework into the class was a good one, and also I liked the idea of moving around the class. I'll let you know how it goes....thanks again.
I just read your post after my last post. Thank you so much for your ideas and advice. I think you really hit the nail on the head. These are good kids who really do have a desire to learn English, but they are pretty desperate to get all of their homework done for fear of being yelled at. I agree with you that I need to take the hardline...and otherwise just be as supportive as I can. These are students who live at the school,as they have received scholarships and are from other provinces. I see them often and have become pretty close with the class. Therefore, it is hard for me to be detached from the situation.
Your ideas about trying to integrate the homework into the class was a good one, and also I liked the idea of moving around the class. I'll let you know how it goes....thanks again.
Hello Coffeeandtea,
Another idea just occured to me, re. model-building etc. If your students are students at a technical college (they are studying maths and science, you said) perhaps you could incorporate this into class. Split them into pairs. Give one person a drawing – could be a technical sketch, (showing boxes, pipes, filters – for example, a diagram of an electrical switch or I have one my boyfriend ‘donated’ showing a water filter system – depends on what sort of thing is being done in other subjects. Electrical switches are good for technicians, water filters for chemists, for example) or the instructions for a small Lego model (need a lot of Lego for this!) Students sit back to back and one person describes the drawing/diagram; the other person draws it, as described, or builds the model. You need to prepare and teach vocab. such as prepositions, spatial relations, ‘made of’, ‘connected to’, ‘attached to’ and so on.
You could also do something like this: organize a selection of drawings/diagrams, split the class into 2/3/4 groups. Each group has a ‘drawer’ (person changes each round) and they get a big sheet of paper or a section of the board. Within a certain amount of time (teacher keeps time), each group has to describe the drawing IN ENGLISH to the drawer (it’ll be loud, be warned). No Chinese, no peeking at the picture or the group is out. When the time is up, the students look at the drawings and the group with the drawing closes to the original wins. If it is close, they have to defend their model – explain why it is better, more accurate.
In this way, all are involved, the pace is fast, the language is activated and hopefully it could be in some way connected or made relevant to other subjects…
Another idea just occured to me, re. model-building etc. If your students are students at a technical college (they are studying maths and science, you said) perhaps you could incorporate this into class. Split them into pairs. Give one person a drawing – could be a technical sketch, (showing boxes, pipes, filters – for example, a diagram of an electrical switch or I have one my boyfriend ‘donated’ showing a water filter system – depends on what sort of thing is being done in other subjects. Electrical switches are good for technicians, water filters for chemists, for example) or the instructions for a small Lego model (need a lot of Lego for this!) Students sit back to back and one person describes the drawing/diagram; the other person draws it, as described, or builds the model. You need to prepare and teach vocab. such as prepositions, spatial relations, ‘made of’, ‘connected to’, ‘attached to’ and so on.
You could also do something like this: organize a selection of drawings/diagrams, split the class into 2/3/4 groups. Each group has a ‘drawer’ (person changes each round) and they get a big sheet of paper or a section of the board. Within a certain amount of time (teacher keeps time), each group has to describe the drawing IN ENGLISH to the drawer (it’ll be loud, be warned). No Chinese, no peeking at the picture or the group is out. When the time is up, the students look at the drawings and the group with the drawing closes to the original wins. If it is close, they have to defend their model – explain why it is better, more accurate.
In this way, all are involved, the pace is fast, the language is activated and hopefully it could be in some way connected or made relevant to other subjects…
Hello Coffeeandtea,
Another idea just occured to me, re. model-building etc. If your students are students at a technical college (they are studying maths and science, you said) perhaps you could incorporate this into class. Split them into pairs. Give one person a drawing – could be a technical sketch, (showing boxes, pipes, filters – for example, a diagram of an electrical switch or I have one my boyfriend ‘donated’ showing a water filter system – depends on what sort of thing is being done in other subjects. Electrical switches are good for technicians, water filters for chemists, for example) or the instructions for a small Lego model (need a lot of Lego for this!) Students sit back to back and one person describes the drawing/diagram; the other person draws it, as described, or builds the model. You need to prepare and teach vocab. such as prepositions, spatial relations, ‘made of’, ‘connected to’, ‘attached to’ and so on.
You could also do something like this: organize a selection of drawings/diagrams, split the class into 2/3/4 groups. Each group has a ‘drawer’ (person changes each round) and they get a big sheet of paper or a section of the board. Within a certain amount of time (teacher keeps time), each group has to describe the drawing IN ENGLISH to the drawer (it’ll be loud, be warned). No Chinese, no peeking at the picture or the group is out. When the time is up, the students look at the drawings and the group with the drawing closes to the original wins. If it is close, they have to defend their model – explain why it is better, more accurate.
In this way, all are involved, the pace is fast, the language is activated and hopefully it could be in some way connected or made relevant to other subjects…
Another idea just occured to me, re. model-building etc. If your students are students at a technical college (they are studying maths and science, you said) perhaps you could incorporate this into class. Split them into pairs. Give one person a drawing – could be a technical sketch, (showing boxes, pipes, filters – for example, a diagram of an electrical switch or I have one my boyfriend ‘donated’ showing a water filter system – depends on what sort of thing is being done in other subjects. Electrical switches are good for technicians, water filters for chemists, for example) or the instructions for a small Lego model (need a lot of Lego for this!) Students sit back to back and one person describes the drawing/diagram; the other person draws it, as described, or builds the model. You need to prepare and teach vocab. such as prepositions, spatial relations, ‘made of’, ‘connected to’, ‘attached to’ and so on.
You could also do something like this: organize a selection of drawings/diagrams, split the class into 2/3/4 groups. Each group has a ‘drawer’ (person changes each round) and they get a big sheet of paper or a section of the board. Within a certain amount of time (teacher keeps time), each group has to describe the drawing IN ENGLISH to the drawer (it’ll be loud, be warned). No Chinese, no peeking at the picture or the group is out. When the time is up, the students look at the drawings and the group with the drawing closes to the original wins. If it is close, they have to defend their model – explain why it is better, more accurate.
In this way, all are involved, the pace is fast, the language is activated and hopefully it could be in some way connected or made relevant to other subjects…
Re: respect
Hi coffeandtea!
I regret if I offended you unintentionally.
However I would like to point out I did not call you a "softie"
Of course I do not know your class. However maybe my standards of manners are different to yours.
I consider it highly impolite do homework during a "lesson".
I also see my role as that of a teacher. I get paid to teach- so I do it.
Regards
Siân
I regret if I offended you unintentionally.
However I would like to point out I did not call you a "softie"
Of course I do not know your class. However maybe my standards of manners are different to yours.
I consider it highly impolite do homework during a "lesson".
I also see my role as that of a teacher. I get paid to teach- so I do it.
Regards
Siân
Hi Coffeeandtea,
I think since you do have respect for your students and perhaps a soft heart and an understanding that they are under other demands you may want to "make a deal" with them. Since this is a habit not easily changed, you can agree that 3/4 of the lesson (or any other portion) you get your work done and the rest of the lesson (If they work good!!) you let them work on their homework. I'm sure this will help motivate them and you will perhaps gain much respect from them. They will understand that you mean business and that you are fair at the same time.
Good Luck
I think since you do have respect for your students and perhaps a soft heart and an understanding that they are under other demands you may want to "make a deal" with them. Since this is a habit not easily changed, you can agree that 3/4 of the lesson (or any other portion) you get your work done and the rest of the lesson (If they work good!!) you let them work on their homework. I'm sure this will help motivate them and you will perhaps gain much respect from them. They will understand that you mean business and that you are fair at the same time.
Good Luck
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coffeeandtea
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2004 9:56 am
- Location: China
an update
Well, I told the class they needed to not do their homework, or else I would take it. They complied immediately, and the class that day was so much beter. A few days before, I had asked them to write some things about the class, such as how much they can understand, and what they (and I) can do to improve the class. THey gave a lot of useful feedback, and I think that getting feedback from them helped them to be cooperative.
These are not disresepctful kids...but its useless to persuade anyone of that over the internet. Be realistic, though, anyone, of any age, particularly when under extreme pressue, would do their work whenever they got the chance. Weren't we all in high school once? True respect is a mutual thing...it's when both teacher and student attempt to understand each other and each others viewpoints. It isn't hard to intimidate students into compliance...but it's a different thing to really invovle them in their education. It's also easy to demand compliance from students while ignoring the root causes of their "misbehavior"...thus not really solving anything at all. That's not the kind of teacher I want to be, and I know that my classroom can be one of mutual respect and cooperation without it being a threatening atmosphere, which is not conducive to education, particularly not in an ESL class. It's easy to set up your classroom as a dictatorship...but I think people do this because they don't really know how to relate to and engage the students, or they think its not worth their time to do so.
October, thanks for your suggestions. I don't think that I will set aside time in every class for doing homework, but if there are times when they are getting more work than other times, I'd like to give them some chances to do it, perhaps in the beginning or end of class. I think this is entirely reasonable...after all, it is dificult to concentrate and learn when you are worried about all of the work you have...and these kids aren't goofing off...they are under extreme pressure. I often worry about it, like a softie does, and I'm fine with that, because in order to educate, you have to realize that the classroom is not a vacuum.
These are not disresepctful kids...but its useless to persuade anyone of that over the internet. Be realistic, though, anyone, of any age, particularly when under extreme pressue, would do their work whenever they got the chance. Weren't we all in high school once? True respect is a mutual thing...it's when both teacher and student attempt to understand each other and each others viewpoints. It isn't hard to intimidate students into compliance...but it's a different thing to really invovle them in their education. It's also easy to demand compliance from students while ignoring the root causes of their "misbehavior"...thus not really solving anything at all. That's not the kind of teacher I want to be, and I know that my classroom can be one of mutual respect and cooperation without it being a threatening atmosphere, which is not conducive to education, particularly not in an ESL class. It's easy to set up your classroom as a dictatorship...but I think people do this because they don't really know how to relate to and engage the students, or they think its not worth their time to do so.
October, thanks for your suggestions. I don't think that I will set aside time in every class for doing homework, but if there are times when they are getting more work than other times, I'd like to give them some chances to do it, perhaps in the beginning or end of class. I think this is entirely reasonable...after all, it is dificult to concentrate and learn when you are worried about all of the work you have...and these kids aren't goofing off...they are under extreme pressure. I often worry about it, like a softie does, and I'm fine with that, because in order to educate, you have to realize that the classroom is not a vacuum.