genitives (possession)

[noel]

Can anyone explain the semantics behind different kinds of genitives.

First, some terminology might make the discussion easier. I understand that "My father's car" uses a synthetic genitive, while the "the hills of Africa" uses an analytic genitive to indicate possession.

Why can we say:

1) She borrowed her father's car for the weekend.

but not:

2) She borrowed the car of her father for the weekend.

while sentences such as:

3) The words of his father came back to haunt him

would still be acceptable?

This is a practical question. I have an advanced student who is intrigued by this issue. He has to write reports for a multinational company that are read by native English speakers. Although mistakes in this area may not hinder comprehension, he takes pride in his work, and understandably would like some guidelines.

Michael Swan ('Practical English Usage') says that the synthetic genitive (he doesn't use this terminology, btw) is normally used when the possessor is a person, organisation, nation, etc. But this is clearly not always the case, and this student and I keep finding loopholes and areas of grey.

Any ideas?

[metal56]

Can anyone explain the semantics behind different kinds of genitives.


Any ideas?

Basically, Swan is correct. With examples like:

The words of his father came back to haunt him.

we feel a sense of the literary/formal-fictional register, and that is one of the keys. It is possible to say:

His father's words...

and that gives a sense of a more informal, less literary and more familiar register. The latter is another key. When things become more familiar, we tend to use the s' genitive.

More later.

[Andrew Patterson]

Connected to this, it would be nice to have some rules on how to make noun combinations from the following:

1. Wool taken from lambs
2. The enterance where artists enter a theatre
3. A show where boats are displayed
4. A degree that takes three years to complete
5. Sauce made with chease
6. A ceiling in a living-room
7. A choir for children
8. A choir in Wales that only has male singers
9. The tail on a rabbit
10. The national monuments found in Poland
11. A door on a cupboard.
12. A bank note with a value of five pounds

[metal56]

Connected to this, it would be nice to have some rules on how to make noun combinations from the following:

1. Wool taken from lambs
2. The enterance where artists enter a theatre
3. A show where boats are displayed
4. A degree that takes three years to complete
5. Sauce made with chease
6. A ceiling in a living-room
7. A choir for children
8. A choir in Wales that only has male singers
9. The tail on a rabbit
10. The national monuments found in Poland
11. A door on a cupboard.
12. A bank note with a value of five pounds

http://webster.commnet.edu/grammar/possessives.htm


Many writers consider it bad form to use apostrophe -s possessives with pieces of furniture and buildings or inanimate objects in general. Instead of "the desk's edge" (according to many authorities), we should write "the edge of the desk" and instead of "the hotel's windows" we should write "the windows of the hotel." In fact...

[Andrew Patterson]

Thanks for the reference Metal,

I supose I ought to write the answers to the questions. Are all of these possible in simplified form though, I think that most are set phrases.

1. Wool taken from lambs - Lambs' wool
2. The enterance where artists enter a theatre - Artists' enterence (or stage door)
3. A show where boats are displayed - A boat show
4. A degree that takes three years to complete - A three-year degree
5. Sauce made with chease - Chease sauce
6. A ceiling in a living-room - A living-room ceiling
7. A choir for children - A children's choir
8. A choir in Wales that only has male singers - A Welsh male voice choir
9. The tail on a rabbit - A rabbit's tale
10. The national monuments found in Poland - Polish national monuments
11. A door on a cupboard. - A cupboard door
12. A bank note with a value of five pounds - A five pound note

[Stephen Jones]

Quirk and Greenbaum in A University Grammar of English give an exhaustive description. You definitely need to read Section 4.58 on the gender scale.

In general the apostrophe from is only used for words that are high up on the gender scale, which comprise humans, and higher animals including babies. Inanimate objects must use the 'of' form or the unmodified noun, except for geographical and institutional names, temporal nouns, and nouns of special interest to human activity,

As it would breach copyright to type all ten pages in their entirety, and as I can see nothing of my own to add, I can simply recommend buying or borrowing the book.

[Andrew Patterson]

I think I can see where you're coming from there Stephen, that should be in EFL textbooks, so far I have never seen that rule, but it seems to work with the examples that I gave.