Two of my favourites games -
Running Pictionary:
Especially useful to review present continuous if you'll be working with it. Play in 2 teams for five minutes at the start of the class. One student from each team has to run forward, look at your sentence and draw it. The first team to guess gets a point. Enforce a time limit per sentence so it doesn't drag.
'Blockbusters'
Excellent for revision of almost anything near the end of a course, especially one wih a test. It takes quite a lot of prep so it's reserved for shared use/courses that you teach repeatedly. No explanation of Blockbusters' necessary for Brits I'm sure; for everyone else -
Have A4 pages of hexagonal grids so that you can go from top-to-bottom or from side-to-side in six hexagons. Each hexagon has a letter, representing a question and you must prepare two different sets of corresponding questions with examples of possible answers.
To play, students work in a group of 4-6 split into two 2s/3s. Students select the letter they want and the other pair/three gives them the corrsponding question; however, they can only move to adjacent hexagons and team 1 must cross from top-to bottom, starting at the top whereas team 2 start on he left and cross to the right.
The quesions can relate to almost anything on the course. E.g. 'R' could be 'responses' How would you respond if someone asked you...? or 'Rules', 'Requests', etc.
If they get the question right, no problem. If they get the quesion wrong, that hexagon is no longer available and they must change their route next turn. Sounds incredibly complex now, but it's not.
Larry, you've got me intrigued with your emphasis on learners exploring meaning. What exactly do you get them to do? [I'd like to see how applicable it is to my setting]
WHAT'S YOUR FAVOURITE GAME?
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
Some more great ideas, thanks.
Larry, all this stuff about exploring meaning and getting really stuck into texts is marvellous in theory. I'm sure it works where you are, but teachers in different places obviously encounter specific, culturally- related problems.
Some of my students are great, and can get excited about exploring new language. The majority of my teenage classes, however, have spent the whole day at high school before being forced by their parents to come to my school for extra lessons. The very sight of a text book makes them go cold for the entire lesson. They aren't going to learn anything. They also have problems with shyness and lack of confidence. So how do you give a class of 15 year olds, who all have somewhere else they could be, the desire to learn and use a foreign language? For me, where i am now, games, quizzes, competitions, puzzles and creative activities are the answer. Students don't even realise they are learning, they are too busy having fun. They need a reason to produce language, and for some of my students 'the teacher says so' is not a good enough reason. There is a game for almost all language points, and most can be adapted to fit into whatever you are teaching. I play a lot of games 'just for fun'... not eliciting any particular language, but just to increase confidence, get the students talking in English and change the classroom into a fun place to be and something that they can look forward to every week. And i love it too.
In an ideal world all of my students would be enthusiastic about exploring new language and meaning. It's not an ideal world, some kids just can't learn like that.
I find speaking board games work well. Make a 'trail' type board, each square with a question or a statement to discuss (can be adapted to fit any language point or age group). A student rolls a dice, lands on the square and must talk for a set period of time. Then others in the group ask questions. I made a game which also encorporates Chance cards like in Monopoly. A player lands on a square and picks up a card. They then follow the directions (do something, say a tongue twister, etc). I have a board for 1st lessons (getting to know you..), a board for various grammar points, one for eliciting adjectives (describe your neighbourhood... etc). These games also introduce a slightly competitive element to conversation (good for my students), and the presence of a board and a dice and counters makes talking more fun anyway.
Larry, just tried the newspaper tower building activity with one class. Worked very well (and got them using some great new language) , thanks for the idea.
Larry, all this stuff about exploring meaning and getting really stuck into texts is marvellous in theory. I'm sure it works where you are, but teachers in different places obviously encounter specific, culturally- related problems.
Some of my students are great, and can get excited about exploring new language. The majority of my teenage classes, however, have spent the whole day at high school before being forced by their parents to come to my school for extra lessons. The very sight of a text book makes them go cold for the entire lesson. They aren't going to learn anything. They also have problems with shyness and lack of confidence. So how do you give a class of 15 year olds, who all have somewhere else they could be, the desire to learn and use a foreign language? For me, where i am now, games, quizzes, competitions, puzzles and creative activities are the answer. Students don't even realise they are learning, they are too busy having fun. They need a reason to produce language, and for some of my students 'the teacher says so' is not a good enough reason. There is a game for almost all language points, and most can be adapted to fit into whatever you are teaching. I play a lot of games 'just for fun'... not eliciting any particular language, but just to increase confidence, get the students talking in English and change the classroom into a fun place to be and something that they can look forward to every week. And i love it too.
In an ideal world all of my students would be enthusiastic about exploring new language and meaning. It's not an ideal world, some kids just can't learn like that.
I find speaking board games work well. Make a 'trail' type board, each square with a question or a statement to discuss (can be adapted to fit any language point or age group). A student rolls a dice, lands on the square and must talk for a set period of time. Then others in the group ask questions. I made a game which also encorporates Chance cards like in Monopoly. A player lands on a square and picks up a card. They then follow the directions (do something, say a tongue twister, etc). I have a board for 1st lessons (getting to know you..), a board for various grammar points, one for eliciting adjectives (describe your neighbourhood... etc). These games also introduce a slightly competitive element to conversation (good for my students), and the presence of a board and a dice and counters makes talking more fun anyway.
Larry, just tried the newspaper tower building activity with one class. Worked very well (and got them using some great new language) , thanks for the idea.
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LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
"Exploring Language"
Well, I’m kind of surprised and really delighted that this has become a more interesting discussion than I at first imagined it would be. Thanks to everyone involved for making it so. 
Some of you are wondering what I mean by “exploring language”, and just how do I use texts to that end. First of all, let me clarify that I most assuredly do not mean textbooks when I say ‘texts.’ I’m talking about authentic texts from any major source. They may be magazine articles, excerpts from novels, transcriptions of telephone conversations or speeches, business reports, song lyrics, advertisements, or even excerpts from textbooks that are NOT English language textbooks (for example from a chemistry textbook, if your students are interested in that subject for some reason). The main point is that the language must be genuine, currently used, real language which is intended for some purpose outside of language classes. It is important because the contrived language of English language textbooks is often (VERY often) totally different from any that native speakers or writers would use in their daily lives. So, careful choice of the text is vital, in my view, but depends on the particular student or class you may be working with. The students must know that the text is genuine, that “this is real English that we could encounter in the world.” You do not need a whole article or a whole speech. Limit the amount to what your experience tells you can be analyzed in a class period.
Next, I do not have them read the text so that I can quiz them on their understanding of it. I don’t care (most of the time) whether they can understand it or not. I’m interested in having them look carefully at the language in the text to analyze it for some particular linguistic purpose. That purpose will vary from occasion to occasion depending on what I want them to study. For example, I may divide them into teams of two or three people to have them scan the text and find and mark all the verbs ending in –ing. Then I will have them look carefully at each of those to find the complete verb phrase, including any auxiliaries they may find. Sometimes, I rearrange the working partnerships for this second task. This all takes a fair amount of time, and necessitates considerable involvement on part of the students. They “get into”it. It is grammatical, and scholarly to be sure, and I believe that is what really helps them genuinely increase their understanding and skill with English. It is not a game, but students find that it is “fun.” But we’re not through yet. After they’ve identified the verb phrases, we write them down, perhaps on the board in front of class. I ask them if they notice anything about the auxiliaries used with –ing verbs. It stands out like a sore thumb. They “discover” that all –ing verbs are used with auxiliaries—none occur without them. And they also “discover” that the auxiliaries are always combinatorial with “(be)” as part of the combination, or perhaps as the only auxiliary. Moreover, when they look at the word order in the combinatorial verb phrase, they "discover" that (be) always just precedes the -ing verb. By the end of the evening, they have each come to some major conclusions about an important element of English verb usage. That is, I believe, a major achievement, and it is one that sticks with them, as they will use their knowledge of it to argue a point on a subsequent evening about some other aspect of the language. Oh, by the way, they also often pick up some vocabulary along the way. If the text is carefully selected and reflects the student’s current interests, I can see many of them writing down certain “new words” in their vocabulary notebooks as they are looking for verb phrases. They do this without my even asking them to. They do want to increase their vocabularies, but they want words and phrases that they can use. That’s much more interesting than learning the words we teachers think they should have.
Well, there is more, but this is the essence of it. Sometimes I work with, say, adverbs. They find adverbs, and then I ask which of those can be used as sentence adverbs, commenting on the whole sentence that follows (such as “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.”, or “Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to make any difference.”) Sometimes, I ask them to find nouns, and then decide which of them can be used in a non-count sense. There are many different ways to analyze a text, it just depends on what you want to work with them about.
I believe it is much more effective to have students explore real English in this way than it is to “teach” in the sense of standing up in front of the class and lecturing to them, or having them read about some feature of English in a textbook, and then practice it by playing games or doing exercizes. They can do so much by themselves, and they have more fun doing it, and they remember it better. Of course, nothing is perfect. You may have some objective in mind that you cannot figure how to do in this way. So you need to be prepared to do other things in class too. It is clear, too, that this is not for beginners, but most students are not beginners. And also, we must always remember that language learning is not linear...some features of English need to be revisited before they can be really understood well. That is because a language is an organic whole. Some parts of it just cannot be understood until you also understand all (or most) of the other parts.
So, there you have it. If some of you can find fault with this, I’d welcome your comments. If you can improve on it, I’d also welcome your comments. Whatever can help us all to improve our methods is more than welcome, it is necessary if we are to get on with this business of helping people to really know our language well enough to be able to use it. It is my view that coming to classes every day or every week for months, even years, and having lessons or playing games seems to lead in most cases to practically nowhere. Students have to do better. We teachers have to do better. This is just one possibility.
Let me know what you think.
Larry Latham
Some of you are wondering what I mean by “exploring language”, and just how do I use texts to that end. First of all, let me clarify that I most assuredly do not mean textbooks when I say ‘texts.’ I’m talking about authentic texts from any major source. They may be magazine articles, excerpts from novels, transcriptions of telephone conversations or speeches, business reports, song lyrics, advertisements, or even excerpts from textbooks that are NOT English language textbooks (for example from a chemistry textbook, if your students are interested in that subject for some reason). The main point is that the language must be genuine, currently used, real language which is intended for some purpose outside of language classes. It is important because the contrived language of English language textbooks is often (VERY often) totally different from any that native speakers or writers would use in their daily lives. So, careful choice of the text is vital, in my view, but depends on the particular student or class you may be working with. The students must know that the text is genuine, that “this is real English that we could encounter in the world.” You do not need a whole article or a whole speech. Limit the amount to what your experience tells you can be analyzed in a class period.
Next, I do not have them read the text so that I can quiz them on their understanding of it. I don’t care (most of the time) whether they can understand it or not. I’m interested in having them look carefully at the language in the text to analyze it for some particular linguistic purpose. That purpose will vary from occasion to occasion depending on what I want them to study. For example, I may divide them into teams of two or three people to have them scan the text and find and mark all the verbs ending in –ing. Then I will have them look carefully at each of those to find the complete verb phrase, including any auxiliaries they may find. Sometimes, I rearrange the working partnerships for this second task. This all takes a fair amount of time, and necessitates considerable involvement on part of the students. They “get into”it. It is grammatical, and scholarly to be sure, and I believe that is what really helps them genuinely increase their understanding and skill with English. It is not a game, but students find that it is “fun.” But we’re not through yet. After they’ve identified the verb phrases, we write them down, perhaps on the board in front of class. I ask them if they notice anything about the auxiliaries used with –ing verbs. It stands out like a sore thumb. They “discover” that all –ing verbs are used with auxiliaries—none occur without them. And they also “discover” that the auxiliaries are always combinatorial with “(be)” as part of the combination, or perhaps as the only auxiliary. Moreover, when they look at the word order in the combinatorial verb phrase, they "discover" that (be) always just precedes the -ing verb. By the end of the evening, they have each come to some major conclusions about an important element of English verb usage. That is, I believe, a major achievement, and it is one that sticks with them, as they will use their knowledge of it to argue a point on a subsequent evening about some other aspect of the language. Oh, by the way, they also often pick up some vocabulary along the way. If the text is carefully selected and reflects the student’s current interests, I can see many of them writing down certain “new words” in their vocabulary notebooks as they are looking for verb phrases. They do this without my even asking them to. They do want to increase their vocabularies, but they want words and phrases that they can use. That’s much more interesting than learning the words we teachers think they should have.
Well, there is more, but this is the essence of it. Sometimes I work with, say, adverbs. They find adverbs, and then I ask which of those can be used as sentence adverbs, commenting on the whole sentence that follows (such as “Frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn.”, or “Interestingly, it doesn’t seem to make any difference.”) Sometimes, I ask them to find nouns, and then decide which of them can be used in a non-count sense. There are many different ways to analyze a text, it just depends on what you want to work with them about.
I believe it is much more effective to have students explore real English in this way than it is to “teach” in the sense of standing up in front of the class and lecturing to them, or having them read about some feature of English in a textbook, and then practice it by playing games or doing exercizes. They can do so much by themselves, and they have more fun doing it, and they remember it better. Of course, nothing is perfect. You may have some objective in mind that you cannot figure how to do in this way. So you need to be prepared to do other things in class too. It is clear, too, that this is not for beginners, but most students are not beginners. And also, we must always remember that language learning is not linear...some features of English need to be revisited before they can be really understood well. That is because a language is an organic whole. Some parts of it just cannot be understood until you also understand all (or most) of the other parts.
So, there you have it. If some of you can find fault with this, I’d welcome your comments. If you can improve on it, I’d also welcome your comments. Whatever can help us all to improve our methods is more than welcome, it is necessary if we are to get on with this business of helping people to really know our language well enough to be able to use it. It is my view that coming to classes every day or every week for months, even years, and having lessons or playing games seems to lead in most cases to practically nowhere. Students have to do better. We teachers have to do better. This is just one possibility.
Let me know what you think.
Larry Latham
-
LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
-
LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Hello...anybody there?
Gosh, I don't quite know what happened here. I guess something I said must have cut off this thread. 
OK, let me help to make it easy to reply:
Choose the best answer.
a. It sounds OK, I guess.
b. I hate it. What a dumb idea.
c. I don't get it.
d. I couldn't care less.
OK, let me help to make it easy to reply:
Choose the best answer.a. It sounds OK, I guess.
b. I hate it. What a dumb idea.
c. I don't get it.
d. I couldn't care less.
a. It sounds OK, I guess 
Maybe your long description put people off?
My favourite game is therapy - You can only play it with a maximum of 12 though...
http://www.gibsonsgames.co.uk/therapy.shtml
Best wishes
Siân
Maybe your long description put people off?
My favourite game is therapy - You can only play it with a maximum of 12 though...
http://www.gibsonsgames.co.uk/therapy.shtml
Best wishes
Siân
It sounds ok Larry, but I had a quick glance at a magazine article I was using that day, and I saw two phrases - "you need strength building exercises" and "the girls standing in the corner" - which didn't seem to have an auxiliary verb. I'm sure it's easy for you with your superior grammatical knowledge to explain why these are exceptions to the rule, but like a lot of teachers here (I think) I am just an overworked, not greatly experienced teacher who wants to keep his head above water and not get into too much trouble trying to explain the finer points of grammar, which is what I would be dragged into doing if I tried your idea.
I don't think you have to get your coat just yet Larry, I' sure you'll get plenty of replies.
I think your multiple choice options were far too coy; it sounds better than OK (the but comes later). I agree that having learners use authentic texts and discovery-learning has some big advantages. However, I don't think it's applicable everywhere.
1) Time/access to resources
There's a lot of prep in finding suitable authentic materials for each point you want to cover If, like me, you have no colleagues and sometimes have to teach three different two-hour classes a day, five days a week...
2) The students
Unfortunately, many of our students are studying because they must rather than because they want to. If mastering the language is insufficient motivation, winning the game/having fun might make participation worthwhile.
3) Where you teach
Does your institution (or students) expect you to be the fountain of knowledge? How acceped/understood are learner-centred approaches? I think in some contexts, your approach might be perceived as you not doing your job.
You know your students best, and I'm sure it works for you and them. I'm not so sure it would work for everyone else.
I think your multiple choice options were far too coy; it sounds better than OK (the but comes later). I agree that having learners use authentic texts and discovery-learning has some big advantages. However, I don't think it's applicable everywhere.
1) Time/access to resources
There's a lot of prep in finding suitable authentic materials for each point you want to cover If, like me, you have no colleagues and sometimes have to teach three different two-hour classes a day, five days a week...
2) The students
Unfortunately, many of our students are studying because they must rather than because they want to. If mastering the language is insufficient motivation, winning the game/having fun might make participation worthwhile.
3) Where you teach
Does your institution (or students) expect you to be the fountain of knowledge? How acceped/understood are learner-centred approaches? I think in some contexts, your approach might be perceived as you not doing your job.
You know your students best, and I'm sure it works for you and them. I'm not so sure it would work for everyone else.
-
LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Ahhhh...thanks for your replies.
Sita, maybe you're right. Perhaps my long description did put people off. I just didn't know how to do it with fewer words.
Neil, I'm sure by now you've figured out that your examples really aren't "exceptions to the rule." Actually, "exceptions" to grammatical rules aren't nearly as common as some people think. More often than not, it's defective rules which are the problem. A great deal has been learned about English grammar in the past few years owing to the ability of researchers to use computers to parse language and study it in ways really never before possible. Some of the prescriptive "rules" of earlier times have been found to be flawed. This is one of the reasons prescriptive grammar has begun to go out of style, so to speak, in favor of the gentler, kinder, descriptive approach to the issue. The recognition that what is "right" or "correct" in a language is a rather fluid concept has been a comfort to us all. No one would insist that the rules posited for Victorian English (not to even mention earlier varieties) should be rigidly adhered to nowadays.
I'm glad you brought up the examples you presented. One of the problems for students is, of course, figuring out which -ing words are verbs and which are not. Words ending in -ing can also be adjectives or even nouns. So the first lesson, or more precisely, the first issue for your students is to avoid merely quickly scanning the text just to highlight all the words ending in -ing. That would be too easy--too casual. Remember, we want them to think.
Joanne, you're so right. I was being coy, hoping to nudge people into taking the time to reply. And many thanks to you and Neil and Sita for doing so. It makes me feel better. I felt I had kind of stuck my neck out there, and then suddenly there was nothing but silence. I was thinking I had better re-read my post to see if I had said anything off-putting. In fact, as Sita mentioned, maybe it was just too long.
Anyway, let me take your points one at a time.
1. Actually, I don't spend much prep time with these activities. One of the salient points in this activity is the authenticity of the text. It means exactly that I do not want to spend time "selecting" just the right text. I want students to understand that the issues we study could apply to any text. All I really do here is simply read over the text to make sure that, for instance, there actually are several continuous verb phrases in it (if that's what I'm planning to do that day). If not, and I notice something else about the text that seems appropriate to work on, it sometimes is easier to change the lesson rather than change the text. A little chaos in lesson planning does no harm.
2. Well, I guess each teacher will have to ask herself/himself what sort of consessions she/he is willing to make to student apathy. It seems rather defeatist to me to concede that students just don't want to be there, "so I guess I'll let them play some games to while away the time," (hoping against hope that at least a little English will rub off). Perhaps it's time to get out some of your inspirational ammunition and try to fire them up. Mastering English, in most cases, will be a life-changing accomplishment. Hardly any other subject they may be studying will have such a profound effect ontheir lives. Many of your students may have pretty dim prospects for their future lives which could be substantially improved if they decide to get off their arses and genuinely acquire this new language. Even if it does not result getting in a much better job than they might have without it, their lifestyle opportunities will expand dramatically by opening up a whole set of literature and information they might not otherwise be able to access. And what about the chance to know and become real friends with people they would otherwise never meet or be able to talk to. Well, like I said, this is an issue for each teacher individually--every classroom situation is different.
3. Ah, now here you may have a valid point.
You are quite right that in many cases, not only do teachers have to fight with student attitudes, they also may have to do battle with the administrators. 
It is an unfortunate fact for many of us. I've personally been in both kinds of situations. My teaching experience in Taiwan was marvelous. I had free reign at my schools there (one private language school, and one public university, both top schools). When I returned to the USA (for family reasons), I was greeted with a harsh dose of reality about the strong ties in this country between education and politics. Your comment stands. Some teachers may have a difficult administrative environment for this approach. I have, regrettably, read many postings from too many teachers in this forum about the unbelievable attitudes of school administrators.
Thanks to all of you for your kindness and comments. I look forward to more from others out there.
Larry Latham
Sita, maybe you're right. Perhaps my long description did put people off. I just didn't know how to do it with fewer words.
Neil, I'm sure by now you've figured out that your examples really aren't "exceptions to the rule." Actually, "exceptions" to grammatical rules aren't nearly as common as some people think. More often than not, it's defective rules which are the problem. A great deal has been learned about English grammar in the past few years owing to the ability of researchers to use computers to parse language and study it in ways really never before possible. Some of the prescriptive "rules" of earlier times have been found to be flawed. This is one of the reasons prescriptive grammar has begun to go out of style, so to speak, in favor of the gentler, kinder, descriptive approach to the issue. The recognition that what is "right" or "correct" in a language is a rather fluid concept has been a comfort to us all. No one would insist that the rules posited for Victorian English (not to even mention earlier varieties) should be rigidly adhered to nowadays.
I'm glad you brought up the examples you presented. One of the problems for students is, of course, figuring out which -ing words are verbs and which are not. Words ending in -ing can also be adjectives or even nouns. So the first lesson, or more precisely, the first issue for your students is to avoid merely quickly scanning the text just to highlight all the words ending in -ing. That would be too easy--too casual. Remember, we want them to think.
Joanne, you're so right. I was being coy, hoping to nudge people into taking the time to reply. And many thanks to you and Neil and Sita for doing so. It makes me feel better. I felt I had kind of stuck my neck out there, and then suddenly there was nothing but silence. I was thinking I had better re-read my post to see if I had said anything off-putting. In fact, as Sita mentioned, maybe it was just too long.
Anyway, let me take your points one at a time.
1. Actually, I don't spend much prep time with these activities. One of the salient points in this activity is the authenticity of the text. It means exactly that I do not want to spend time "selecting" just the right text. I want students to understand that the issues we study could apply to any text. All I really do here is simply read over the text to make sure that, for instance, there actually are several continuous verb phrases in it (if that's what I'm planning to do that day). If not, and I notice something else about the text that seems appropriate to work on, it sometimes is easier to change the lesson rather than change the text. A little chaos in lesson planning does no harm.
2. Well, I guess each teacher will have to ask herself/himself what sort of consessions she/he is willing to make to student apathy. It seems rather defeatist to me to concede that students just don't want to be there, "so I guess I'll let them play some games to while away the time," (hoping against hope that at least a little English will rub off). Perhaps it's time to get out some of your inspirational ammunition and try to fire them up. Mastering English, in most cases, will be a life-changing accomplishment. Hardly any other subject they may be studying will have such a profound effect ontheir lives. Many of your students may have pretty dim prospects for their future lives which could be substantially improved if they decide to get off their arses and genuinely acquire this new language. Even if it does not result getting in a much better job than they might have without it, their lifestyle opportunities will expand dramatically by opening up a whole set of literature and information they might not otherwise be able to access. And what about the chance to know and become real friends with people they would otherwise never meet or be able to talk to. Well, like I said, this is an issue for each teacher individually--every classroom situation is different.
3. Ah, now here you may have a valid point.
You are quite right that in many cases, not only do teachers have to fight with student attitudes, they also may have to do battle with the administrators. It is an unfortunate fact for many of us. I've personally been in both kinds of situations. My teaching experience in Taiwan was marvelous. I had free reign at my schools there (one private language school, and one public university, both top schools). When I returned to the USA (for family reasons), I was greeted with a harsh dose of reality about the strong ties in this country between education and politics. Your comment stands. Some teachers may have a difficult administrative environment for this approach. I have, regrettably, read many postings from too many teachers in this forum about the unbelievable attitudes of school administrators.Thanks to all of you for your kindness and comments. I look forward to more from others out there.
Larry Latham
Well, for what it's worth, my favorite game is "Seances." We turn the light out, light a candle and I hand out little scraps of paper with very famous dead people written on them, e.g. Chaplin, Lady Di, Hitler etc. Then we ask questions, "Were you British? Did you make films, live in Hollywood" etc. It's quite a good laugh with the kids or the adults.
HI everyone, Larry in particular,
A very interesting debate. I am one of the pro-games brigade, i.e. am for the sensible use of fun activities to complement my teaching. I think Larry in his last post was rather harsh in saying “It seems rather defeatist to me to concede that students just don't want to be there, "so I guess I'll let them play some games to while away the time. I don’t think Sita sounds like the type of teacher who would take that approach – indeed, any teacher who takes the time to post a sensible message on this board is most likely the type of teacher who takes his/her time to plan a sensible lesson.
I think it may have to do with the fact that we are teaching different groups of students with different levels of motivation, inspiration, education and background. I guess you are teach in an ESL situation, Larry – your EFL experience, if I understand correctly, was at a private school and university. I teach at a state-sponsored community college. My students come from all walks of life, people who are unemployed, refugees, high-school pupils struggling with English class at school, sometimes even prisoners. I have students who are returning to school for the first time after 20 or 30 years and are scared – their job hangs in the balance. Learn English or get out. You’d think that would be a big motivating factor – it most often isn’t. They’re nervous, sometimes resentful, feel inadequate and threatened. As well as the issue of motivation, a lacking sense of self-confidence, and poor learning skills, I often have problems with literacy – I have students who have little or no formal education and very poor literacy levels. In other words, they very seldom write in their native language (no e-mails, letters, notes) or read (no newspapers, articles, books), let alone in English.
As a result, I use games with great enthusiasm. They allow a change of pace, a change of atmosphere, movement (good for our kinesthetic friends and important in a 2 hour class), a chance to be light-hearted and let your hair down. It helps reluctant students realize that learning is not only serious work – it can be fun. I often get the feeling on these forums that everyone else is teaching classes of earnest, driven, industrious students who are highly-motivated and possess boundless enthusiasm. And I think “Am I the only person with real people in her class?” heh heh. Saying “Many of your students may have pretty dim prospects for their future lives which could be substantially improved if they decide to get off their arses and genuinely acquire this new language,” Larry, assumes your students have the tools to learn this language. Lucky you. I once had to explain the concept of ‘past’ to students. Yes, that there is a past and the way we express it in language uses different forms. They weren’t stupid people, they just hadn’t been fortunate enough to have had educational chances that gave them contact with language and language learning. They are getting up off their arses and trying to learn the language but they have to learn to learn first and they should learn to enjoy it.
I use a lot of guided discovery techniques in my classes and would use a similar activity to yours in class. I wouldn’t use a newspaper article, unless with advanced classes, because I find a newspaper article reinforces the amount students don’t know (“Man! All that text! What does the heading mean? What does this word mean? It’s so long!”) and I prefer to reinforce what they do know and build on that. If I am teaching the present continuous I don’t think students need to know all the uses and all the exceptions straight away – it’s like trying to eat a cow in the one go. I find that a similar activity, pared down to make it more do-able, works just as well and gives students positive reinforcement – I can do it, I can manage it. Of course, an element of challenge has to be involved. That’s obvious.
There you go – my ‘umble opinion! I guess it’s a case of each to his own…
A very interesting debate. I am one of the pro-games brigade, i.e. am for the sensible use of fun activities to complement my teaching. I think Larry in his last post was rather harsh in saying “It seems rather defeatist to me to concede that students just don't want to be there, "so I guess I'll let them play some games to while away the time. I don’t think Sita sounds like the type of teacher who would take that approach – indeed, any teacher who takes the time to post a sensible message on this board is most likely the type of teacher who takes his/her time to plan a sensible lesson.
I think it may have to do with the fact that we are teaching different groups of students with different levels of motivation, inspiration, education and background. I guess you are teach in an ESL situation, Larry – your EFL experience, if I understand correctly, was at a private school and university. I teach at a state-sponsored community college. My students come from all walks of life, people who are unemployed, refugees, high-school pupils struggling with English class at school, sometimes even prisoners. I have students who are returning to school for the first time after 20 or 30 years and are scared – their job hangs in the balance. Learn English or get out. You’d think that would be a big motivating factor – it most often isn’t. They’re nervous, sometimes resentful, feel inadequate and threatened. As well as the issue of motivation, a lacking sense of self-confidence, and poor learning skills, I often have problems with literacy – I have students who have little or no formal education and very poor literacy levels. In other words, they very seldom write in their native language (no e-mails, letters, notes) or read (no newspapers, articles, books), let alone in English.
As a result, I use games with great enthusiasm. They allow a change of pace, a change of atmosphere, movement (good for our kinesthetic friends and important in a 2 hour class), a chance to be light-hearted and let your hair down. It helps reluctant students realize that learning is not only serious work – it can be fun. I often get the feeling on these forums that everyone else is teaching classes of earnest, driven, industrious students who are highly-motivated and possess boundless enthusiasm. And I think “Am I the only person with real people in her class?” heh heh. Saying “Many of your students may have pretty dim prospects for their future lives which could be substantially improved if they decide to get off their arses and genuinely acquire this new language,” Larry, assumes your students have the tools to learn this language. Lucky you. I once had to explain the concept of ‘past’ to students. Yes, that there is a past and the way we express it in language uses different forms. They weren’t stupid people, they just hadn’t been fortunate enough to have had educational chances that gave them contact with language and language learning. They are getting up off their arses and trying to learn the language but they have to learn to learn first and they should learn to enjoy it.
I use a lot of guided discovery techniques in my classes and would use a similar activity to yours in class. I wouldn’t use a newspaper article, unless with advanced classes, because I find a newspaper article reinforces the amount students don’t know (“Man! All that text! What does the heading mean? What does this word mean? It’s so long!”) and I prefer to reinforce what they do know and build on that. If I am teaching the present continuous I don’t think students need to know all the uses and all the exceptions straight away – it’s like trying to eat a cow in the one go. I find that a similar activity, pared down to make it more do-able, works just as well and gives students positive reinforcement – I can do it, I can manage it. Of course, an element of challenge has to be involved. That’s obvious.
There you go – my ‘umble opinion! I guess it’s a case of each to his own…
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LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Hello Rania,
Your points are well taken and eloquently argued. You’re quite right that our classrooms are not always filled with fresh, eager faces ready to take up today’s new and interesting challenge. At times in first classes, some of the students (if not most of them) are nervous, feeling inadequate or alienated from other people in the class, resentful for being forced to be there, or any of a multitude of negative affects. It’s a personal crisis! Krashen was quite right to point out what any of us could have told him to begin with, that these affects diminish (often destroy) what students might gain from their time in class. You, Rania, are also right to point out that many students do not have the learning skills to accomplish what I would like them to by exploring language.
But where I would take issue with you is that I don’t believe that justifies the fallback to games. Much as we might like them to, I am not aware of any reliable evidence that games actually teach English. Or that games actually reinforce anything that may have been learned previously in another way. Even if I were to concede that they might, I would assert that they do it inefficiently, at great cost of precious class time. As I have said before, games may be good for social binding, or just for fun. But teachers ought to be careful with the temptation to provide a good time for their students. At least if they do this often. It’s not easy to think this way, because usually nobody is complaining if the students are having a good time, and speaking English. Perhaps they should be. Social binding, on the other hand, may be justified in a classroom where students don’t know each other, as it can create peer relationships which can have a powerful effect on learning. Students often learn from their peers.
When teachers are confronted with classrooms full of students such as you have described, Rania, it seems to me that they owe it to those students to try to pull them through their personal crisis. Sometimes, that may mean working one-on-one with one or two such students, or if most of the class fits into this box, then it may mean devoting major class time to learning how to learn. Not to do so will condemn those students to perhaps a lifetime of feeling left behind with good cause. If all they accomplish in your class is lots of laughs and learning some games and a few English words, that will not suffice. Not in their own minds, and not in the minds of those who might have to judge whether their skills are adequate (for a job, for example). Students must be convinced that, unless they’re just there for the fun of it, they must make a serious commitment and be prepared to work hard. And they must be convinced that if they do so they will succeed. Learning English is serious business, as I’ve argued above, but that doesn’t mean students can’t have fun learning it. Teachers, however, cannot afford to trivialize the process.
But, to do what I’ve suggested above in a classroom full of resentful, angry, nervous students will accomplish little or nothing, as you’ve so articulately pointed out, Rania. So I say, try to alter the students’ attitude, not the aim of the class.
Larry Latham
Your points are well taken and eloquently argued. You’re quite right that our classrooms are not always filled with fresh, eager faces ready to take up today’s new and interesting challenge. At times in first classes, some of the students (if not most of them) are nervous, feeling inadequate or alienated from other people in the class, resentful for being forced to be there, or any of a multitude of negative affects. It’s a personal crisis! Krashen was quite right to point out what any of us could have told him to begin with, that these affects diminish (often destroy) what students might gain from their time in class. You, Rania, are also right to point out that many students do not have the learning skills to accomplish what I would like them to by exploring language.
But where I would take issue with you is that I don’t believe that justifies the fallback to games. Much as we might like them to, I am not aware of any reliable evidence that games actually teach English. Or that games actually reinforce anything that may have been learned previously in another way. Even if I were to concede that they might, I would assert that they do it inefficiently, at great cost of precious class time. As I have said before, games may be good for social binding, or just for fun. But teachers ought to be careful with the temptation to provide a good time for their students. At least if they do this often. It’s not easy to think this way, because usually nobody is complaining if the students are having a good time, and speaking English. Perhaps they should be. Social binding, on the other hand, may be justified in a classroom where students don’t know each other, as it can create peer relationships which can have a powerful effect on learning. Students often learn from their peers.
When teachers are confronted with classrooms full of students such as you have described, Rania, it seems to me that they owe it to those students to try to pull them through their personal crisis. Sometimes, that may mean working one-on-one with one or two such students, or if most of the class fits into this box, then it may mean devoting major class time to learning how to learn. Not to do so will condemn those students to perhaps a lifetime of feeling left behind with good cause. If all they accomplish in your class is lots of laughs and learning some games and a few English words, that will not suffice. Not in their own minds, and not in the minds of those who might have to judge whether their skills are adequate (for a job, for example). Students must be convinced that, unless they’re just there for the fun of it, they must make a serious commitment and be prepared to work hard. And they must be convinced that if they do so they will succeed. Learning English is serious business, as I’ve argued above, but that doesn’t mean students can’t have fun learning it. Teachers, however, cannot afford to trivialize the process.
But, to do what I’ve suggested above in a classroom full of resentful, angry, nervous students will accomplish little or nothing, as you’ve so articulately pointed out, Rania. So I say, try to alter the students’ attitude, not the aim of the class.
Larry Latham
Dear Larry,
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. It is seldom that I take umbrage at something written on an internet forum but really, Larry, my students and my teaching are two things I take most seriously so I was rather affronted by your post. You seem to sweepingly imply that anyone who uses games in their class ‘trivialize the process’ (of learning … of teaching). Tut, tut! Do you honestly think, based on what I had written, that I do not devote a lot of time and energy to helping my students, as a group and individuals, and helping them to learn?
I don’t think I am qualified to act as a psychologist or psychiatrist so I don’t believe I ‘owe it to my students to try to pull them through their personal crisis.’ Rather, I try to create a positive classroom atmosphere that allows them to learn English (please note *learn* English, not play with it, flick through textbooks or generally have a senseless barrel of laughs) and support them where I can. Not meaning to blow my own trumpet, but I have had many students throughout the years who have thanked me for my work – my classes have changed their lives, helped them get new jobs, visas to other countries, more self-confidence, chances for further education… . I put a lot of effort into my students and, recognising how seriously I take what they do, it generally pays off with equal measures on the other side. Yes, I use light-hearted activities that could, horror oh horror!, be classed as games to complement our learning and teaching processes. They are not the basis.
Basically what it comes down to, I believe, is a question of personality. If I recall correctly – and correct me if I am wrong – you are a wee bit older than many of the teachers posting on this forum. You seem like a very earnest teacher, no doubt you take your subject and students very seriously. I imagine your students like you a lot and feel good in your class. Your posts are always thoughtful and courteous and so I’d say that this is indicative of your general personality. You build up a mental imagine of a person reading their posts – my mental image of you can’t see you laughing or being light-hearted in your classroom! Maybe you personally don’t like the use of games because it doesn’t accord with your character?
Regards to all reading,
Rania
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply. It is seldom that I take umbrage at something written on an internet forum
but really, Larry, my students and my teaching are two things I take most seriously so I was rather affronted by your post. You seem to sweepingly imply that anyone who uses games in their class ‘trivialize the process’ (of learning … of teaching). Tut, tut! Do you honestly think, based on what I had written, that I do not devote a lot of time and energy to helping my students, as a group and individuals, and helping them to learn? I don’t think I am qualified to act as a psychologist or psychiatrist so I don’t believe I ‘owe it to my students to try to pull them through their personal crisis.’ Rather, I try to create a positive classroom atmosphere that allows them to learn English (please note *learn* English, not play with it, flick through textbooks or generally have a senseless barrel of laughs) and support them where I can. Not meaning to blow my own trumpet, but I have had many students throughout the years who have thanked me for my work – my classes have changed their lives, helped them get new jobs, visas to other countries, more self-confidence, chances for further education… . I put a lot of effort into my students and, recognising how seriously I take what they do, it generally pays off with equal measures on the other side. Yes, I use light-hearted activities that could, horror oh horror!, be classed as games to complement our learning and teaching processes. They are not the basis.
… is really a very black-and-white view, Larry. Why shouldn’t a class be a lot of laughs? You can learn and laugh, my goodness, don’t tell me you can only learn with a serious mien. You seem to have somewhere along the line mixed up the idea of ‘the means to an end’ and ‘the end’ – you seem to believe that all teachers that use games use them as an end, when a teacher who implements them sensibly and with thought uses them as a means to an end. Just because you use a game now and again doesn’t mean your students come to class to ‘learn some games and a few English words.’ That’s a bit mean, don’t you think?“If all they accomplish in your class is lots of laughs and learning some games and a few English words, that will not suffice. Not in their own minds, and not in the minds of those who might have to judge whether their skills are adequate (for a job, for example). Students must be convinced that, unless they’re just there for the fun of it, they must make a serious commitment and be prepared to work hard.”
Basically what it comes down to, I believe, is a question of personality. If I recall correctly – and correct me if I am wrong – you are a wee bit older than many of the teachers posting on this forum. You seem like a very earnest teacher, no doubt you take your subject and students very seriously. I imagine your students like you a lot and feel good in your class. Your posts are always thoughtful and courteous and so I’d say that this is indicative of your general personality. You build up a mental imagine of a person reading their posts – my mental image of you can’t see you laughing or being light-hearted in your classroom!
Maybe you personally don’t like the use of games because it doesn’t accord with your character? Regards to all reading,
Rania
three questions
I've been reading these posts for a few days, and I'm just wondering, has anyone on this forum been won over to Larry's EXPLORING LANGUAGE teaching approach?
Also, Larry says there is no evidence to support the teaching value of games. Is there any evidence that suggests EXPLORING LANGUAGE is the only way to go?
And, has anyone here had success teaching students with games and activities?
Also, Larry says there is no evidence to support the teaching value of games. Is there any evidence that suggests EXPLORING LANGUAGE is the only way to go?
And, has anyone here had success teaching students with games and activities?
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LarryLatham
- Posts: 1195
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 6:33 pm
- Location: Aguanga, California (near San Diego)
Dear Rania, and others who are watching,
I’m so glad you wrote back. On reflection, as a result of your post, I think I got just what I deserved from you. I’m afraid I have allowed my missionary zeal to run away from me. That you have scolded me with such grace and panache only adds to my embarrassment.
I certainly have no right to criticize your teaching nor anyone else’s. I haven’t even seen you teach! But I suspect, judging from the quality of your posts on this forum, that you likely are an excellent teacher. Certainly, I do not doubt the sincerity of your purpose, or the seriousness with which you take your work or your students. Please accept my apology for casting even a shadow of doubt on that. It was unintended, and I hasten to correct myself here. Nor do I have any intention of criticizing any other teachers who use games. It's the games themselves I have trouble with.
It will come as no surprise to anyone reading this that I am not enamored of the use of games in the classroom. However, there can be little doubt that I am in the minority on this point—perhaps a minority of one. Moreover, my ideas on the subject seem to have had little effect on readers. Fungus, for one, surely does not seem to have been convinced by my rants. Most of you will probably be surprised to hear that I am actually very much for having fun in the classroom. I love to joke with students, and encourage giggles and laughter all around. Much of what frequently happens in a language classroom is amusing to everybody. People will say the strangest things sometimes. But my enthusiasm for fun does not extend to games. My reasons for not believing in the value of games are somewhat complex I guess, but stem basically from the idea that time in the classroom is limited, and therefore precious. When I combine this with the frustration I feel for what seems to me such limited success most adult students have in acquiring English even after having studied for years, I am forced to suspect there may be something wrong with what we teachers are doing in that room day after day. And what I see so many teachers doing is playing games, day after day. Or explaining. Or exercising—neither of which I hold in especially high regard either. This is not to lay blame on any particular teacher, but to try to hold all of us, as a whole, accountable for what we do. If we aim to be truly professional, we ought to be willing to examine our methods from time to time with an eye toward improving them. In the case of games, I wonder if we aren’t sacrificing students’ long-term interests to the expedience of entertaining them. When we teachers talk about success, I wonder just what we mean by that. I imagine most teachers feel they’ve had some sort of success if their students enjoy themselves in class. And it is in a sense, but is it a success for the students, or for the teacher? If students do something in class, and speak English while they’re doing it, that would also appear to be successful. Again, success for whom, and in what way? If students learn more words, or seem to understand something more of the grammatical system than they did some time before, that would surely lead teachers to feel they have had success with their methods. The question that keeps gnawing away at me is: “Is that enough?” If we are all so successful at what we’re doing, then why do intelligent people come to English classes for so long and still not develop enough fluency to function well in a real conversation outside the classroom or to write a simple letter or a business e-mail? A few do, of course, and those are the ones who tell you that your class has changed their lives. But they are so few. I have concluded that these few must be the highly motivated and conspicuously talented. However, many other students I’ve had in my classrooms appear to be motivated. They seem to want English and are willing to earnestly do what I ask them to do. I assume they’ve been just as willing with the teachers they’ve had before me. Why is it, then, when I ask them how long they’ve been studying English, they astonish me with answers like “Five years.” Some even longer. 
They almost unanimously agree that “English is soooo hard.” But it’s no harder than other languages; much less so, it would appear, than several other European languages that have complicated inflection systems. Learning a language is not something that necessarily requires special talents. If it were, then only a few of us could talk.
Well, I don’t want to get ahead of myself here, or run the risk of getting too much up on my soapbox again. However, I would like to ask if there are any others of you wondering about these issues, or am I the only one? Rania, I would love to hear back from you on this.
Larry Latham
I’m so glad you wrote back. On reflection, as a result of your post, I think I got just what I deserved from you. I’m afraid I have allowed my missionary zeal to run away from me. That you have scolded me with such grace and panache only adds to my embarrassment.
I certainly have no right to criticize your teaching nor anyone else’s. I haven’t even seen you teach! But I suspect, judging from the quality of your posts on this forum, that you likely are an excellent teacher. Certainly, I do not doubt the sincerity of your purpose, or the seriousness with which you take your work or your students. Please accept my apology for casting even a shadow of doubt on that. It was unintended, and I hasten to correct myself here. Nor do I have any intention of criticizing any other teachers who use games. It's the games themselves I have trouble with.It will come as no surprise to anyone reading this that I am not enamored of the use of games in the classroom. However, there can be little doubt that I am in the minority on this point—perhaps a minority of one. Moreover, my ideas on the subject seem to have had little effect on readers. Fungus, for one, surely does not seem to have been convinced by my rants. Most of you will probably be surprised to hear that I am actually very much for having fun in the classroom.
I love to joke with students, and encourage giggles and laughter all around. Much of what frequently happens in a language classroom is amusing to everybody. People will say the strangest things sometimes. But my enthusiasm for fun does not extend to games. My reasons for not believing in the value of games are somewhat complex I guess, but stem basically from the idea that time in the classroom is limited, and therefore precious. When I combine this with the frustration I feel for what seems to me such limited success most adult students have in acquiring English even after having studied for years, I am forced to suspect there may be something wrong with what we teachers are doing in that room day after day. And what I see so many teachers doing is playing games, day after day. Or explaining. Or exercising—neither of which I hold in especially high regard either. This is not to lay blame on any particular teacher, but to try to hold all of us, as a whole, accountable for what we do. If we aim to be truly professional, we ought to be willing to examine our methods from time to time with an eye toward improving them. In the case of games, I wonder if we aren’t sacrificing students’ long-term interests to the expedience of entertaining them. When we teachers talk about success, I wonder just what we mean by that. I imagine most teachers feel they’ve had some sort of success if their students enjoy themselves in class. And it is in a sense, but is it a success for the students, or for the teacher? If students do something in class, and speak English while they’re doing it, that would also appear to be successful. Again, success for whom, and in what way? If students learn more words, or seem to understand something more of the grammatical system than they did some time before, that would surely lead teachers to feel they have had success with their methods. The question that keeps gnawing away at me is: “Is that enough?” If we are all so successful at what we’re doing, then why do intelligent people come to English classes for so long and still not develop enough fluency to function well in a real conversation outside the classroom or to write a simple letter or a business e-mail? A few do, of course, and those are the ones who tell you that your class has changed their lives. But they are so few. I have concluded that these few must be the highly motivated and conspicuously talented. However, many other students I’ve had in my classrooms appear to be motivated. They seem to want English and are willing to earnestly do what I ask them to do. I assume they’ve been just as willing with the teachers they’ve had before me. Why is it, then, when I ask them how long they’ve been studying English, they astonish me with answers like “Five years.” Some even longer. They almost unanimously agree that “English is soooo hard.” But it’s no harder than other languages; much less so, it would appear, than several other European languages that have complicated inflection systems. Learning a language is not something that necessarily requires special talents. If it were, then only a few of us could talk.Well, I don’t want to get ahead of myself here, or run the risk of getting too much up on my soapbox again. However, I would like to ask if there are any others of you wondering about these issues, or am I the only one? Rania, I would love to hear back from you on this.
Larry Latham