Attention here centers on the relations that may hold between "no+Xer+than" and "as X as."
Do you agree that both (1a) and (1b) are acceptable, meaning (1c) while (2a), which means (2c), is acceptable but (2b) is not?
(1) a. You have until no later than 17:00 on the previous day to cancel.
b. You have until as late as 17:00 on the previous day to cancel.
c. The latest time you can cancel is 17:00 on the previous day.
(2) a. Contestants must be no younger than 16 years old and no older than 24 years old.
b. Contestants must be as young as 16 years old and as old as 24 years old.
c. Contestants must range in age from 16 to 24 years [of age/old].
Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA
no+Xer+than
Moderators: Dimitris, maneki neko2, Lorikeet, Enrico Palazzo, superpeach, cecil2, Mr. Kalgukshi2
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Stephen Jones
- Posts: 1421
- Joined: Sun May 18, 2003 5:25 pm
You've mixed up the tenses in 1.
Let's change "the previous day" to tomorrow to get rid of the mistake.
1c is factually the same as 1a and 1b but the emphasis of those two sentences is exaclty opposite.
1a is stressing how liitle time you have, and 1b is stressing how much.
in 2b it is the must that is wrong. Change the sentence to
Candidates can be as young as 16 years old and as old as 24 years old.
and it is quite correct. Again the 'as young as' - 'as old as' is stressing the generosity of the age range, and 'np younger than' - 'no older than' is stressing its restrictiveness.
Let's change "the previous day" to tomorrow to get rid of the mistake.
1c is factually the same as 1a and 1b but the emphasis of those two sentences is exaclty opposite.
1a is stressing how liitle time you have, and 1b is stressing how much.
in 2b it is the must that is wrong. Change the sentence to
Candidates can be as young as 16 years old and as old as 24 years old.
and it is quite correct. Again the 'as young as' - 'as old as' is stressing the generosity of the age range, and 'np younger than' - 'no older than' is stressing its restrictiveness.
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Seiichi MYOGA
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:13 am
no+Xer+than
Dear Mr Jones,
I appreciate your help and comments.
So (3b) is neutral (, meaning the speaker doesn't say anything about how he/she wants you to feel for the time limit) and is close or equal in the point of message to (3a). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
(3) a. You have until 17:00 tomorrow to cancel.
b. The latest time you can cancel is 17:00 tomorrow. [=(1c)]
(If you allow me, I have two more questions to ask for (3a), which I'll save for later.)
How about (4a) and (4b)?
Do you detect any meaningful difference(s) between the two?
(4) a. Members are as young as 8 years old and as old as 80 years old.
b. Members are no younger than 8 years old and no older than 80 years old.
Seiichi MYOGA
I appreciate your help and comments.
So (3b) is neutral (, meaning the speaker doesn't say anything about how he/she wants you to feel for the time limit) and is close or equal in the point of message to (3a). Please correct me if I'm wrong.
(3) a. You have until 17:00 tomorrow to cancel.
b. The latest time you can cancel is 17:00 tomorrow. [=(1c)]
(If you allow me, I have two more questions to ask for (3a), which I'll save for later.)
How about (4a) and (4b)?
Do you detect any meaningful difference(s) between the two?
(4) a. Members are as young as 8 years old and as old as 80 years old.
b. Members are no younger than 8 years old and no older than 80 years old.
Seiichi MYOGA