I am 'VERY' fine, thanks?

cftranslate · Post by **cftranslate** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:46 pm

I told my students that I've heard 'I am fine' as a reply to a greeting but not 'I am VERY fine'.

A Google search produced fewer than 900 results. Do native people say it?

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:56 am

No.

'very fine' will be used in sentences like "She's got a very fine 'arse!"

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 12:37 am

Oh, I don't know, I have the feeling I do say this in an unnatural and jaunty kind of voice, on occasion.

Mental note to stop doing that.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:02 am

By the way, I noticed in Swan that he says....

Rachel came to see you.

Oh yes? And what did Rachel want?

....is so unnatural, due to repetition, that it is ungrammatical.

This is not so if it is said in a silly, mocking voice. Therefore, to compete with Harzer, I posit WOODCUTTER'S RULE. Anything is grammatical and acceptable if said in a silly tone of voice.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:08 am

Nobody has mentioned the area of grammar yet. It's gradable vs ungradable adjectives.

The problem is that "fine" has several meanings some of which are gradable, some of which are ungradable.

If we talk about "fine" material, "fine is gradable and we can use "very".
If we talk about feeling fine, "fine is ungradable" and we should use "absolutely".

That said, in all that confusion, native speakers particularly US speakers do use often "very" in ungradable contexts although I have to say that it grates on me (sorry US speakers.) Right now I think I'm turning into a prescriptive grammarian because the gradable vs ungradable distinction is a useful grammatical category. Ungradable adjectives show strong emphasis, and it would be a shame if every adjective was gradable.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:15 pm

Andrew Patterson wrote:Nobody has mentioned the area of grammar yet. It's gradable vs ungradable adjectives.

The problem is that "fine" has several meanings some of which are gradable, some of which are ungradable.

If we talk about "fine" material, "fine is gradable and we can use "very".
If we talk about feeling fine, "fine is ungradable" and we should use "absolutely".

That said, in all that confusion, native speakers particularly US speakers do use often "very" in ungradable contexts although I have to say that it grates on me (sorry US speakers.) Right now I think I'm turning into a prescriptive grammarian because the gradable vs ungradable distinction is a useful grammatical category. Ungradable adjectives show strong emphasis, and it would be a shame if every adjective was gradable.

Please don't go prescripon us!

So, according to your theory, I can't reply as below:

Hey, how are you today?

I'm fine.

How fine?

Very fine!

How are we with:

It was a very fine day.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:58 pm

So, according to your theory, I can't reply as below:

Hey, how are you today?

I'm fine.

How fine?

Very fine!

I'd be more likely to reply, "Absolutely fine."

How are we with:

It was a very fine day.

Yes, I'm fine with that.

I think that :
1) "fine" when talking about threads or material means either gosamer-like or high quality.
2) When talking about other people or the weather it means high quality/great/nice.

Both these uses are gradable.

3) When talking about oneself it means "uninjured" or not "ill" these are absolute qualities and can't be graded, either you're injured or ill, or not. You can be very injured or very ill, but certainly not very uninjured or very not ill.
4) I'm fine with that means absolute agreement and is also uncountable.

This word has a lot of meanings, think about this: It was a fine day - I parked on a double yellow line and a traffic warden saw me.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:52 am

Phatic communication is never a felicitous place to seek for rules.

Of course the silly voice actually works as a kind of vocal "(sic)", showing that as an English teacher of infinite awareness I know that the phrase I am using is seldom heard. I do hear it, I'm sure, but maybe only from students.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:10 am

[quote ="Andrew Patterson]

This word has a lot of meanings, think about this: It was a fine day - I parked on a double yellow line and a traffic warden saw me.

[/quote]

Brad (smirking): I hear you had a fine day.

Betty (sarcastic): Oh, yes, very fine. I parked on a double yellow line and a traffic warden saw me.

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:08 am

A demonstration of WOODCUTTER'S RULE so soon?

How thoughtful!