Fruits and Vegetables

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sun Nov 07, 2004 7:23 pm

My turn for a question: I had my students write something about food, and now I'm getting confused. I might be suffering from "ESL teacher syndrome" when you hear something enough times and you think it sounds okay when "normal" English-speaking people don't. Then again, maybe it is okay. My problem is when to use count/noncount with fruit.

I like to eat fruits and vegetables.
I like to eat fruit and vegetables.
I like to eat fruits.
I like to eat fruit.

and how about "There are many kinds of fruits here."

Oddly enough, I think I prefer saying "I like to eat fruit." and "I like to eat fruits and vegetables." but it didn't make "sense" to me. Thoughts?

woodcutter · Post by **woodcutter** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:59 am

All OK, and all frequent, no? Because we can use the words in the sense of an uncountable noun, or different types of uncountable noun.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:24 am

I would only say fruits in special circumstances. Fruit is normal.

William · Post by **William** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 5:13 am

I looked up the Longman online dictionary, http://www.ldoceonline.com/, here is the definition:

fruit (plural) fruit or fruits

1 [uncountable and countable] something that grows on a plant, tree, or bush, can be eaten as a food, contains seeds or a stone, and is usually sweet
Try to eat plenty of fresh fruit .

- fruit and vegetables
- a glass of fruit juice
- a large garden with fruit trees

I think fruit (in most cases) is a collective noun, i.e. staff, furniture, and stationery. So it should be, "I like fruit and vegetables."

ma_alem · Post by **ma_alem** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 5:45 am

I have heard people saying fruits and vegetables. I have probably said it myself.
However, I tend to think of fruit as a noncount noun.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:27 am

I think there's a certain amount of flexibility and choice on the part of the speaker, depending upon whether or not he/she is conceptualising the fruit(s) and vegetable(s) as individual items or a complete whole.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:39 am

Fruit can be uncountable or countable.

We ask if we have any fruit, but talk about "fruits of the forest" for that one when you're back in a native English speaking country look at a few tubs of yoghurt - it's delicious, btw.

Apples and pears are both fruits, or kinds of fruit. Somehow, though I'm beginning to prefer the latter these days, but "fruits" is I'm sure still "right". I suspect that it is becoming more uncountabe. "Vegetable" is more countable than "fruit" but can again be both. I think basically, both of these are categories, and categories in English tend to be uncountable. So I would expect to see a tendency for these words to become more and more uncountable. This tendency may be countered by the increased number of non-proficient English speakers, but I don't think it will be because most students I teach seem to get uncountable things right more than countable.

One can also go to a spa town for the waters.

It's also possible to have a plural of a plural - peoples of the world.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:22 pm

Andrew Patterson wrote: "Vegetable" is more countable than "fruit" but can again be both.

I don't believe I've ever seen "vegetable" used in a non-count way. I don't see any examples in the dictionary. What did you have in mind? None of these, which would work with "fruit" work with "vegetable."

*I like to eat vegetable.
*I bought some vegetable.
*Vegetable is my favorite food.

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Fri Nov 12, 2004 9:37 pm

Carrots and parsnips are both vegetables. Countable
Carrots and parsnips are kinds of vegetable. Uncountable

Is it animal, vegetable or mineral? Uncountable.

You're right, I should have given examples. You are right, too, that there aren't many uncountable uses. I probably should have said there are only a few cases where "vegetable" can be uncountable.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:35 am

Andrew Patterson wrote:Carrots and parsnips are both vegetables. Countable
Carrots and parsnips are kinds of vegetable. Uncountable

Is it animal, vegetable or mineral? Uncountable.

You're right, I should have given examples. You are right, too, that there aren't many uncountable uses. I probably should have said there are only a few cases where "vegetable" can be uncountable.

Hmm Actually, I would say, "Carrots and parsnips are kinds of vegetables" so I guess I don't have the uncountable there.

Do you think "animal" and "mineral" are noncount in your second example? I was wondering if it was an adjective (understood).

Andrew Patterson · Post by **Andrew Patterson** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:30 pm

I don't know.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:17 pm

Andrew Patterson wrote: I don't know.

And I have decided that I probably wouldn't say "Carrots and parsnips are kinds of vegetables" either. I'd probably say, "Carrots and parsnips are vegetables".....duh.