Portugal play(s) well.

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Do you treat it as a plural or singular?

Plural, that's the way Drog intended it!
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Singular, that's the way Drog intended it!
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wilderson
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Portugal play(s) well.

Post by wilderson » Wed Jun 28, 2006 6:25 pm

Portugal play well.

France are winning.

Elaboration?
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Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:26 pm

Not this again.

A team can be thought of as a single entity or a group of individuals.

Both are correct.
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Lorikeet
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Post by Lorikeet » Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:19 pm

Andrew Patterson wrote:Not this again.

A team can be thought of as a single entity or a group of individuals.

Both are correct.
Unless you are American, and then they sound weird. *shrug*
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tigertiger
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Post by tigertiger » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:27 am

If Drog intended it? :?:
Was Drog a Brit or Yank? :?

I thought Drog spoke King James anyhoo. :o
NO mention of Portugal, France or footie in the 1611 version, or any other come to thinks. :shock:
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lolwhites
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Post by lolwhites » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:41 pm

For me, play and plays seem pretty much interchangeable for the reason Andrew gives. However, Portugal cheat/dive/whinge to the ref every time he finds in favour of the opposition, no matter how blatant the foul or obvious the dive all sound wrong if you add -s to the verb. Maybe that's because we see cheating, diving and whinging as done by individuals, or groups of individuals rather than the team as a whole.
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wilderson
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Post by wilderson » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:21 pm

A team can be thought of as a single entity or a group of individuals.
So can food! The food are good. The beans, rice and beer! The food are good!
Maybe that's because we see cheating, diving and whinging as done by individuals, or groups of individuals rather than the team as a whole.
What is this "we" sh*t??? England cheats!!! Not just Crouch, or Terry and Beckham, but every last one of them! It's their culture! :lol:
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Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Sat Jul 01, 2006 10:41 pm

There may be constructions that force a plural verb if you consider things that can only be done by individuals, for instance:

"The committee take their seats..."

The trouble here is that you could just as easily say, "The committee sit down..."

We can also talk of "committee members" if we want to refer to individuals.

Can anyone think of a similar construction that absolutely forces the use of a plural verb?
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Lorikeet
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Post by Lorikeet » Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:23 am

Hah. You know, if I hadn't been exposed to British English, I would have just marked those all wrong. Now I tell my students it is correct
English, but not used in the U.S.
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Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:23 am

"The food are good." Uh! No, this is wrong, "food" is uncountable.
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wilderson
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Post by wilderson » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:47 pm

Ok, let me see if I got this straight:

Portugal is countable, but food is not.

Right! :?


A team can be thought of as a single entity or a group of individuals, but food cannot.

Right! :?
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tigertiger
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Post by tigertiger » Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:07 am

Andrew Patterson wrote:"The food are good." Uh! No, this is wrong, "food" is uncountable.
Food is not always uncountable.

When we use type/kinds of, 'The foods of the world', for example.


But uncountable nouns are another subject.

Portugal and Committee are both entities as well as being (or having the potential to be) proper nouns.
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JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Mon Jul 03, 2006 6:15 am

* "Class! Behave yourself!" *


So addressing a singular entity it seems better to use a plural reflexive pronoun.

What's the AmE view?
Last edited by JuanTwoThree on Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Andrew Patterson
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Post by Andrew Patterson » Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:16 am

Juan wrote:
Class! Behave yourself!"
So addressing a singular entity it seems better to use a plural verb.
That's an imperative and so the infinitive.
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JuanTwoThree
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Post by JuanTwoThree » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:41 pm

You're right and I've deviously edited my original post. It was early.
Last edited by JuanTwoThree on Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Anuradha Chepur
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Post by Anuradha Chepur » Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:08 pm

Looks like verbs choose form over meaning in agreement business. Since pronouns are essentially about person and number, they go by meaning.
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