Zero subject relatives (ZSRs)

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:05 am

Are these constructions acceptable in your variant of Standard English?

I have this friend >goes hunting regularly.

There's a tree >sits at the top of the hill.

It was Dave >did it

Anybody >does that ought to be shot!

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:17 am

To me it's OK in speech but not writing.

What about you?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:20 am

lolwhites wrote:To me it's OK in speech but not writing.
Why is that?

What about you?
I use them regularly.

In fact I prefer such as:

I know a woman>'ll help you with that.

to:

I know a woman who will help you with that.
I know a woman who'll help you with that.

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:26 am

The British also make it a point to teach the structure to kids, I suppose.
The first song in the song casette of a British publication (Linguaphone) for children is: "There was a farmer had a dog, and Bingo was his name ho. . ." This publication is aimed at non-native speakers with a worldwide market.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:18 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote:The British also make it a point to teach the structure to kids, I suppose.
The first song in the song casette of a British publication (Linguaphone) for children is: "There was a farmer had a dog, and Bingo was his name ho. . ." This publication is aimed at non-native speakers with a worldwide market.

Not sure what your point is there. ??

Anuradha Chepur · Post by **Anuradha Chepur** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:12 pm

No point at all, just an observation.
What do you have to say about it?
And would you go about teaching this structure?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:43 pm

Why is that?

Dunno, I just wince a little when I see it written on a page.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:01 pm

Anuradha Chepur wrote: What do you have to say about it?
I have no problem with such constructions - I use some of them myself.

And would you go about teaching this structure?
That would depend on my students' needs.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:03 pm

lolwhites wrote:
Why is that?
Dunno, I just wince a little when I see it written on a page.

How about this?

See you Sunday.

Does that make you wince?

revel · Post by **revel** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:50 pm

Hey all.

As a former AE speaker (I presently only speak ESL when I speak English), I found all of the examples terribly incorrect, both spoken and written, they are all missing "who" or "that". Having never spoken BE, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when those sentences are accepted by others, but I would have corrected them in my students' speech or writing before having read this thread.

See you Sunday is a string of sounds that we often use to say goodbye as well as to establish the next time we'll be seeing one another. It's a longer version of "see you" and yet a shorter version of "I'll see you". I say such to my students at the end of every class. Yet, if I were saying goodbye to my boss and reminding him that we have made plans to see one another on Sunday, I might just say "I'll see you on Sunday" just to maintain the distances (don't what to be too chummy with my boss.)

peace,
revel.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 5:58 pm

As a former AE speaker (I presently only speak ESL when I speak English), I found all of the examples terribly incorrect, both spoken and written, they are all missing "who" or "that".

How about:

It's just the kids have grown, you see?

It was Danny said you were coming, not Stan.

There were people all round him.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:16 pm

How about this?

See you Sunday.

Does that make you wince?

Not especially, but I'd still expect to be more likely to hear it or read it in an email from a friend than see it written in a letter. What if you received formal letter saying We look forward to seeing you Thursday? To me that'd be a mix of registers.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:26 am

[quote="lolwhites"

Not especially, but I'd still expect to be more likely to hear it or read it in an email from a friend than see it written in a letter. What if you received formal letter saying We look forward to seeing you Thursday? To me that'd be a mix of registers.[/quote]

You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:19 pm

You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?

We look forward to seeing you on Thursday

For me, "See you Thursday" smacks of spoken language between people who know each other quite well.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:41 pm

lolwhites wrote:
You mean "We look forward to seeing you Thursday." isn't formal enough? What would you use instead?
We look forward to seeing you on Thursday

For me, "See you Thursday" smacks of spoken language between people who know each other quite well.

Interesting. For me, the "We look forward to seeing you..." part makes it formal enough, although I can certainly agree to the "on" in the sentence. It just didn't sound incorrect without it.