legitimizing

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:15 am

In the contemporary ESL/EFL classroom, where do learners’ errors stop and legitimate features of a variety begin?

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:49 am

Depends on the 'error'.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:46 am

Stephen Jones wrote:Depends on the 'error'.

For example?

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:16 am

I've had some issues concerning this. Writers are always Sinicizing English using phraseology that we native speakers at the company unanimously find odd. Taiwanese seem to say and write "I took a hot-spring bath" — which is translated from Chinese and ends up getting taught in our English textbooks. When I did a Google search, it shows up predominantly on Japanese and Chinese websites. We native speakers almost never say that — maybe because we don't do it often. We would say "I went to a hot spring."
Another thing I find in Taiwan is senior-high-shool student. The Ministry of Education is helping spread this. I guess they think if there is a junior high school, then there must be a senior high school. I've done a Google search, and usually Taiwanese sites come up for (He/She/They) (is/are) a senior high school student. It may not be technically wrong, but we just don't say that — at least Americans don't.
Taiwanese people don't speak to each other in English, as may happen in Singapore. They learn English only to communicate with native speakers, so they wouldn't want to develop a variety.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:29 am

<We native speakers almost never say that---maybe because we don't do it often. We would say "I went to a hot spring." >

<It may not be technically wrong, but we just don't say that---at least Americans don't.>

So your idea of limits are when something is legitimized by a native speaker, right?

<They learn English only to communicate with native speakers, so they wouldn't want to develop a variety.>

Have they no wish to do business with nonnative speakers of English?

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 6:42 am

Have they no wish to do business with nonnative speakers of English?

Well, I've not thought of that. They might say similar things like that with Japanese speakers if they don't know each other's language (which they mostly do). But our textbooks and others' don't teach these things. Should a textbook teach them? I'm not sure it is the reason parents send their kids to our schools. (We have parents who are very uncomfortable with their kids having a Taiwanese teacher. Some Taiwanese teachers lie about being an ABC [American-born Chinese]). But these varieties might be an interesting side issue to talk about and raise awareness, if not taught in exercises.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:15 am

<Should a textbook teach them? >

Only if there's a feeling that such constructions will be needed at some time in the future.

At present, some mainland Chinese students are learning Indian English. Why do you think that they think it is important?