in the blue

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:26 am

Nothing wrong with this sentence, right?

"I bought the shirt in the blue."

JuanTwoThree · Post by **JuanTwoThree** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:13 am

It's what I'd expect you to say if we'd been shopping and had seen a shirt in a particular shade of blue amongst other colours and even shades of blue, but you were going to think about it.

Or if we'd seen a shirt in one shop and a particular shade of blue in another.

I often tell my students to put "that" or "those" instead of "the" and if it works the "the" is usually right:

"I bought that shirt in that blue"

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:22 am

Similar examples:

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This jacket is currently available in the RED only.

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metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:23 am

Example context:

Pam: I bought the shirt in the blue after all.

Molly: The blue we talked about/saw?

Pam: Yes, that one.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 11:25 am

JuanTwoThree wrote:It's what I'd expect you to say if we'd been shopping and had seen a shirt in a particular shade of blue amongst other colours and even shades of blue, but you were going to think about it.

Exactly what I had in mind.

Or if we'd seen a shirt in one shop and a particular shade of blue in another.

You've got it.

I often tell my students to put "that" or "those" instead of "the" and if it works the "the" is usually right:

Good advice.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Thu Mar 22, 2007 3:33 pm

I never would have figured it out. I thought it was one of Metal's famous discussion points. I was wondering of "in the blue" was going to be the opposite of "out of the blue." Hah hah!

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:10 am

Lorikeet wrote:I never would have figured it out. I thought it was one of Metal's famous discussion points. I was wondering of "in the blue" was going to be the opposite of "out of the blue." Hah hah!

With examples such as this one, I often wonder why some NES never "figure it out". Is it because the usage itself is unfamiliar and/or some NES need context most of the time? When I first came across the "in the blue" example, above, I figured it immediately. I had help from knowing that the definite article in English is often anaphoric, often expresses what is "given" or known.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:03 am

Is it because the usage itself is unfamiliar and/or some NES need context most of the time?

If the usage is unfamiliar then all NES will need context all of the time.

As Lorikeet says, no native speaker would take 'out of the blue' literally. Accordingly, it is logical to presume 'in the blue' has an idiomatic meaning, just as 'in the red' does.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:48 am

How about "I bought the shirt in the blue they are famous for"?

OK, or incorrect?

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 8:52 am

<Accordingly, it is logical to presume 'in the blue' has an idiomatic meaning, just as 'in the red' does.>>

Strange, I didn't even think about idiomatic use. I just read it as referring to something that was "given", or known by both speakers. Juan Two did the same, I think.

If the usage is unfamiliar then all NES will need context all of the time.

Not sure what that means.

Stephen Jones · Post by **Stephen Jones** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:01 pm

"I bought the shirt in the blue they are famous for"?

OK, or incorrect?

Perfectly correct, and I would not have had second thoughts had I not seen it for the first time.

It's only doing a corpus search though that I find 'in the blue' is quite common with a literal meaning, at least amongst British speakers.

Interesting enough there is a web site called www.outintheblue.com that deals with Aramco in Saudi Arabia. The reason given is:

I soon discovered that for this young geologist, being "out in the blue" meant living and working for months on end under the open skies of the frequently merciless deserts and gravel plains of eastern Arabia, as opposed to studying rocks and sand from behind a desk in an air-conditioned office.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:41 pm

<It's only doing a corpus search though that I find 'in the blue' is quite common with a literal meaning, at least amongst British speakers. >

Which is interesting, as on a number of sites your AE speakers tell learners that the form is incorrect.

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:43 am

I agree it sounds strange to me too. When reading the contextualized examples, I can see the point, but it still seems contrived — and that a number of different constructions could work better. I'd probably have corrected it not knowing it was acceptable in British or other major dialect.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 9:01 am

I'd probably have corrected it not knowing it was acceptable in British or other major dialect.

Time to become aware of other dialects, Jotham?

When reading the contextualized examples, I can see the point, but it still seems contrived---and that a number of different constructions could work better.

Why use "different" there? Doesn't "a number of constructions" imply difference?

Which constructions would work better, IYO?

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 6:12 pm

metal56 wrote:
I'd probably have corrected it not knowing it was acceptable in British or other major dialect.
Time to becomer aware of other dialects, Jotham?

While it makes sense for all of us to be aware of other dialects, I don't think we can be expected to catch every nuance from every other dialect. The students that study in my school, for example, are immigrants who have to get along in this area. I try to explain when some things are acceptable in other areas and not used as much over here, but the bottom line is they want to understand and be understood in this part of the world. There are other places where English is taught to students who wish to do business in different parts of the world, and I can see a more "international" approach being used in those instances.