There's/There are...

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:11 am

Quite a few linguists ( J Cheshire being one) state that, even among educated people, usage such as "There's lots of museums" is more common that the grammatically correct "There are lots of museums". If true, how did that come about? Why is the ungrammatical form more popular, even among educated people?

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:23 am

It rolls off the tongue more easily. If native speakers started stopping and then tripping themselves up every time they wanted to say stuff like that, they'd soon start resembling the super-ana*l among the oriental learners that I've met.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:56 am

fluffyhamster wrote:It rolls off the tongue more easily. If native speakers started stopping and then tripping themselves up every time they wanted to say stuff like that, they'd soon start resembling the super-ana*l among the oriental learners that I've met.

You might have a misplace asterisk or "l" there, Fluff.

Yes, I agree, it could be a case that "there's" is now stored as a prefabricated phrase.

Lorikeet · Post by **Lorikeet** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:13 am

This trend has been going on for at least thirty years. I remember seeing it written in the newspaper once a long time ago, in a headline. Since that time, I've been aghast at hearing myself do it too

. Anyway, I think what you'll find in this informal usage is that "there's" replaces both "there is" and "there are". You may hear someone say, "There's some cookies on the table." but you mostly likely won't hear someone say, "There is some cookies on the table."

fluffyhamster · Post by **fluffyhamster** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:30 am

Sorry, I was probably thinking of the ancient long-forgotten Akkadian spelling of an*l - anarl.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:42 am

Why doesn't it happen in cases such as this:

Where are you going/Where're you going?

And Chesire, mentioned above, feels that use of "there's" is related to its discourse function and not to its grammar. She says that spoken English tends to place new information at the end of a phrase. With this in mind, speakers use "there's" more easily becuase it contains a light subject (there) and an empty verb. But, doesn't "there are" contain the same?

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:28 am

Perhaps if the content at the end is more important and focus of attention, so might be the grammar.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:42 am

jotham wrote:Perhaps if the content at the end is more important and focus of attention, so might be the grammar.

Maybe because "there's" is weak form, it allows the rest of the phrase to get more focus.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 7:48 am

Also because spoken language is often generated "on the fly", so you might start by saying there's without thinking "just a sec, the complement is plural, better say there are". An*l students are more likely to generate the whole phrase in their heads and check for mistakes before saying anything.

The form is less likely in writing or a prepared speech as they aren't spontaneous.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:04 am

An*l students are more likely to generate the whole phrase in their heads and check for mistakes before saying anything.

An*l NES likewise, I imagine.

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:08 am

"Think before you speak."

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:14 am

"Think before you speak" can mean several things. It can mean "avoid causing offence", for example. I've never taken it to mean "check the grammaticality of even the most informal remarks".

jotham · Post by **jotham** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:19 am

I was just joking. I should have used the laugh emoticon.

lolwhites · Post by **lolwhites** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:52 am

So should I.

metal56 · Post by **metal56** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:03 am

jotham wrote:"Think before you speak."

Always?