Job Discussion Forums

[avignon81]

Hello,

I've just been offered a teaching position with a for-profit business english training center. They're offering �12 /hr at 25 hr/week which seems low to me. I have a BA and CELTA and was making $18/hr in Los Angeles in 2005. Can anyone tell me how this compares to other schools? I've had a hard time finding info about ESL /EFL in France.

Thanks very much.

[bsjess]

Dear Avignon81,

Yeah, that sounds a bit low. Very low, in fact. Salaries for teaching English just doesn't seem to be one of those things that rises with inflation.

You're in Avignon so the going rate is likely to be lower than in Paris. I'm currently negotiating Parisian rates with a company in Rennes because the work is taking place in Paris. No picnic.

In Paris, I've seen rates from 17 Brut* to 35 Brut for CDDs in for-profit language schools. Lower-end places like Wallstreet and Berlitz can get away with paying people with no teaching experience around 12 Brut an hour.

In 2003 I turned down a huge Parisian language school because of the rate they were offering. This place was located on Boulvard Haussmann - thus the most expensive business district in Paris. It included two floors of gorgeous decor and dozens of secretaries. I had an interview with three different HR reps and then finally the director -- Napoleon's apartment at the Louvre paled in comparison to the director's office. It quickly became obvious where the money was not going.

Look at it this way. Language schools generally charge businesses 50 to 100 euros an hour for language classes. Depending on the size of the language school and its location, that money needs to be divided up to pay the rent, utilities, equipment, director, sales rep, secretaries, HR reps, "chef de pedagogy," and French charges and taxes. In the end, the teacher probably gets 20-25% of those 60 euros. They are lucky if they get 35-40%.

I've learned that employees in France cost companies far more than they do in the States due to Social Security and other charges -- money that we don't even see. Take a look at any paycheck and you'll see what you're not getting. Having employees is an administrative nightmare, but necessary for any language school to survive.

What's the solution? In my opinion:
Work for smaller language schools who are more ready to negotiate.
Flaunt your credentials / experience - they are selling points.
Go independent /freelance if you are ready for the administrative hassle (that's a whole other ballgame).
Be ready to say, "No thanks." You never know, they may come back with a higher offer.

Good luck.

*PS: Is the school you speak of offering 12 an hour Brut or Net? It's important to know. Brut is before taxes. If it's 12 Brut, say no!

The art of teaching is the art of assisting discovery.�
-Mark van Doren-
www.tesol-france.org

[avignon81]

Thanks Mark,

This is very useful. The school is in Paris, actually, so your information is really relevant.

I've only taught at one other ESL school. That was in Los Angeles, teaching groups of college students with a wide range of L1s.

I've heard that ESL in Paris is basically all one-to-one business English. Do you find this to be true?
I love teaching groups. Am I likely to find a school that offers group lessons?

What are my options without a CAPES or an MA?

(I have a BA, CELTA, and 2 years' experience)

Thanks again!

[bsjess]

Hi Avignon81,

Actually, Mark van Doren is a Pulitzer Prize-winning poet. I'm flattered really. I just like that quote.

It's true, the majority of the teaching in Paris is one-to-one or two students. If it's with groups, then the schools will put a cap on the number (usually 5 to 10). The schools are more marketable if they advertise "small classes thus the teacher can devote more attention to your specific needs."

The large-class format takes the student back to their schooling days - not a popular concept.

I used to teach only one-to-one and now find it utterly exhausting. I'm just like you - I prefer groups - the bigger the better! There are so many things you just can't do in a one-to-one class!

One thing I did in a school that was exclusively one-to-one is I asked the director if I could set up "workshops." These were not labeled "classes" and concentrated on very specific needs that couldn't be fully addressed in individual classes (e.g. meetings skills, Q+A in presentations, small talk). A friend of mine set up pronunciation workshops and they were VERY popular.

This approach would eventually make you more marketable when you move on to another school (teachers in Paris generally work for two or three or more at time).

By the way, your BA, CELTA, and two years of experience makes you a shoe in.

Oh, how I would love to teach a group with a wide range of L1s. Before you start, I highly recommend you read the chapter on the French in Michael Swan's book "Learner English." In fact, he'll be the Plenary Speaker at the TESOL France conference in November (My idol! Yay!).

If you're interested, I can send you a private forum message with a couple school recommendations in Paris where they teach groups. And they pay better than 12/hr.

Don't go for the CAPES, unless your French is impeccable and you want to teach 12-18-year-olds (and if you wanna argue with forum regulars and CAPES experts lolwhites and rogan.

An MA used to be available in Paris but the program was unjustly shut down - a real tragedy. Go for an MA later on, but for now, teach teach teach.

And always look for ways to make yourself more marketable (attend or speak at French and European conferences, touch base with publishers and offer to pilot their books, design curriculum in language schools, set up workshops for students and teachers, etc).

The ESL world in France is very rich - we just have to be a little creative. But isn't that what teaching is all about?



"I like a teacher who gives you something to take home to think about besides homework."
-Edith Ann-
www.tesol-france.org

[avignon81]

Dear Edith Ann...

(just kidding, whoopsie on the misnomer)

BSJess,

I'd be so appreciative if you sent me the names of those schools in a private post. Unfortunately, I'm a newbie on this forum and don't know how to set one up. Would you be able to start it?

By the way is this Michael Swan conference open to the public? I'd be nowhere without Practical English Usage!

Thanks,
Jess (Avignon81)

[bsjess]

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All the best!

[rogan]

(and if you wanna argue with forum regulars and CAPES experts lolwhites and rogan. Wink

I hesitate to call myself a "CAPES expert" - after all I've only been working in the French educational system since 1991

[lolwhites]

And my French is far from impeccable!