Job Discussion Forums

[travelgoddess]

Disclaimer; I have a uni degree, CELTA and 2 years of teaching experience. This is my 3rd week in Bogota.
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1. Small institute
Interviewer swore that the only way I could work there was if I got a local friend's documents, because the not legal contract would be in their name. There was a lot of hemming and hawing "trying" to figure out an alternate plan, during which I was given a very British English fill in the blank exercise (I am American, and although I justified my answers, there was an a tisk, tisk moment here and there). Pay was 15,000 an hour before taxes. Interesting that you can pay taxes on an under the table job with penalties for showing up late to class and that is under someone elses name.

2. Bigger, bolder institute
The interviewer asked me if I had a boyfriend, who I lived with, and then started dancing around when his phone (music) ringer went off during the interview. He proceeded to tell the caller that he sounded like a black guy. He must have seen the look on my face when he did this, cause he backtracked a bit when he got off the phone and said he sounded like an Italian. I told him both of my parents are Italian. Long pause.

He also was very persistent in asking about where else I have been interviewing and what my experience was. I know that interview acceptable questions may vary with country, but most of these questions seemed really over the line. There were NO teaching method or experience questions at all.

The pay was better, at 32,000 for 1.5 hours, but it was still running around the city to meet the clients. And very small class sizes (2-5 people). I like big classes.


Even so, I said I was interested, he said there was "training" later in the week. That was Mon, it is wed. Wondering how many minutes in advance I might get before the training starts.

Oh, they strongly recommended getting a student visa, due its "really hard" to get a work visa. STILL, there was a 4 mo minimum not legal contract with penalties for what seemed like many small things, and a $100 USD penalty for leaving before the end of your contract.

3. Small Institute
First off, they handed me a work application that was ALL in Spanish. I told the woman that I spoke only a little Spanish and she told me that when I was done the interview would start.

Interviewer #1 came in. I said (due to frustration higher than Mont Serrat at this point) that I didnt realize that they were looking for bi-lingual teachers. He looked confused. I showed him the application and he offered to "help" me. How kind. He then told me the "headlines" of the job, which had nothing terribly specific other than teaching would be involved. He said I would need to do a demo lesson before I was assigned classes and that I could observe a class before the demo.

Interviewer #2 came in and continued to translate the application and work rules, ALL in very long winded Spanish (the docs, not her speaking). She was very nice, but was unable to give me specific answers to most teaching questions. The more questions I asked, the more I realized that I must be the first person they have interviewed for an English teaching job. They have a French teacher working for them already.

The pay was VERY low, 15,000 for 1.5 hours and about 700 more for traveling to companies outside of Bogota. (thats not even busfare). No guaranteed hours (our French teacher works 6 hours a week, she said, as if this was appealing!!!) There was a 10% bonus of your gross illegal income if I followed all the rules I could not read in Spanish, but that they asked me to sign.

They would not help with a work visa at all, but were willing to give me development work such as making worksheets, placement testing and such, at a higher rate than teaching, but when asked what the rate was, blank stares was the only answer. WHY IS DEV WORK OFFERED MORE PAY THAN TEACHING?!?!?!?

4. Very big global institute
This one I popped in on with no appointment. I spoke to the director, who seemed completely confused as to WHY I wanted to be in Colombia (this is a standard confusion, esp at schools. It almost seems like they want to talk me out of staying here!) She said that they didnt need any teachers right now, but would I like to go ahead with the interview process anyway. Why not!

She asked me where I got my CELTA, as she was holding a copy of my CV and certificate in hand. She asked what kind of classes I taught and how long I was going to be here for. No real grammar or classroom questions, but at least she looked at the docs.

because I am a native speaker and have a CELTA, I would be paid at an elevated rate (for a job that they dont have to offer me) of 800,000 COB (thats $400 USD per month), for "part-time" work of 20-25 hours per week. Eh?

Still, pushing on sounded like fun, so I took the computerized test where a lot of British English was used (esp in the listening test) and where McDonalds was misspelled (MacDonalds). I did just fine and she said that she would talk to the head guy tomorrow (which is today) to see if there were any jobs. (even though she already said there werent).

The one VERY appealing aspect of this company (cause it aint the pay or hours!) was that SHE offered the work visa info. Everyone else skirted around it even when I asked directly. There was also health insurance and some other stuff too. And a legal working contract. If only I can figure out how to live off of $400 USD per month.

Now its day 3 of interviews and I just wanna go to a museum. I was reassured over and over that there was plenty of work here, I suppose I should have asked about QUALITY of work. I really dont wanna work here illegallly, do oodles of visa runs and such. I am thinking that my 2 month return ticket aint such a bad idea afterall. We shall see.

Before these interviews I had been sending my CV out for a couple of weeks. Starting tomorrow I will "pop in" to more places instead. I wasnt in a rush to get a job the first 2 weeks, wanted to get to know the city a bit and see if I really wanted to be here. And I like it here, but the cost of things (food, housing, Spanish classes) versus the pay for teachers is VERY out of wack. I dont want to teach kids, so international schools is out. The universities are already staffed and the BC is unappealing and super hard to get into.

Ugh. Mexico is looking mighty fine right about now. I will work this interview route for 1 more week, and then go traveling in Colombia before leaving if nothing at least minimally acceptable is offered.

I wish I could give you more shining examples of professionalism and respect for teachers. but so far all I am finding is a complete cluelessness about teaching or the EFL industry in general. This aint the only place like this, but its just not something I want to be a part of. teachers have enough on their plate to not have to deal with visa runs, jumping all around the city for classes, and not being paid on time or at all.

PLEASE, if you have had other interview experiences in Bogota or Colombia, share them. I would prefer to have a rounded view of this industry here, but have only just started. Prove me wrong, I want that!!!!


Steph

[lozwich]

Sorry to hear you're having a bad run Steph, and I definitely think you can get better. Have you been to International House? They're in the Candelaria, about Cra 3, just up from the Plaza Bolivar and they pay about 2 million a month.. Not sure if they're hiring just now...

That said, I know a couple of people who make almost nothing a month and spend their time rushing about the city to visit students in their offices.

Got another deadline this weekend, but I might be able to meet up early next week if you want someone to vent at...

Take care,
Lozwich.

[MELEE]

Steph,
Mexico is looking up eh?
I sent you a pm.

[travelgoddess]

The school that said there was training later in the week had a rep call last night AT SEVEN PM. He said that I needed to come in at 10am Thur (less than 24 hours notice) and that I am starting on Friday. He was more than displeased that I was not available at that time due to prior comittments, and although there is no exclusivity clause in the illegal contract he was offering me, he instantly and suspiciously said that "I hope you are not continuing to interview for jobs." I have since cancelled my work plans with them. And will only deal with professional directors. My goodness, I sure hope this is not the norm in Bogota.

[ghost]

Unless you work for International type schools in Latin America, the treatment you received is typical for the region. You have to remember, most schools are just run for profit, with little thought given to teachers, students and/or professional development.

When I taught in the Dominican Rep. in 2004, I started one class with about 12 students, and then the school owner kept sending more and more students to my class until there were 40 students (all ages mixed) crammed into a class set up for 20 max. It was ridiculous. The only thing the Director cared about was making money - and as I was only being paid about $2.00 per hour, I called it quits later that week.

In Colombia, you will find many of the same types of Institutes.

Ironically, I found that the language schools in Guatemala usually treat their teachers better. I spent a very happy year teaching in Quetzaltenango, Guatemala, in 1995, at a school called - Best English School - located in the heart of the city. Adequate pay, homestay and professional administrators. Dream job.

I love Colombia and Latin America, but unless you are a professional teacher in a real job, the chances of having those kinds of experiences are common.

Ghost in Korea (www.gifle.go.kr)

[Tiger Beer]

Pretty interesting.

Reminds me of when I flew into Santiago Chile with similar intentions (moving from Asia to South America).

I'd heard Chile was a great place to teach, 10 days after arriving, I was on a bus to Sao Paulo, Brazil. Nothing seemed anywhere near as good as I'd assumed before arriving in Chile.

Keep us informed on Bogota, it's interesting reading. Other than the job situation so far, do you like the city?

[travelgoddess]

Thanks, will def update this info after some more interviews on tue.

I do like Bogota, but am not head over heels for the city. its much calmer than I thought in many ways. (not in a party sense, more of a general city vibe), which is fine if I could find a job that had some sort of support or benefits, or a legal contract.

like I said, that was just the first 4 interviews. more to come next week.

Am also looking for work outside of Colombia now too. So we shall see where I end up.

If I end up leaving Bogota, I have no regrets at all. I have met some very interesting people here and wouldnt mind returning if a post at one of the golden jobs (for me, at a university due I am not interested in working at international schools) were to be offered.

Steph

[travelgoddess]

Another interview to add to the list. (this is a 2nd interview with #4 in the original post)

This was with one of the bigger language institutes in Bogota, and unfor, one of the lowest paying, but they were one of the few that were upfront and willing to do the work visa, so I went.

First, he asked me about my family. How many brothers and sisters I have, where they are, and location for my parents. As I am vaguely and curtly answering his questions (this is just weird!) he is drawing a family tree on his paper. Um, what does THIS have to do with teaching?

Then he asks if I have any teaching experience?!?!?!?!? I whip out my CV (that he already has) and show him. Then, while he is staring at the CV he asks if I have any teaching certification??!?!??! (this is the FIRST thing listed on my CV!) I say yes and answer some geographical q's about that.

At NO point in the interview did he ask ANY questions about teaching. I asked about class size, text books and the like, but he did not ask anything about teaching at all. Dont know why this still stuns and annoys me after the other interviews I've had.

Then he said that the work visa takes 3-4 weeks and I couldnt start working until that was done. Additionally, before we started the paperwork I needed to be interviewed by the woman who "knows information about the work visa." This was monday, it is now thursday, no call yet.

The "elevated" pay for this job, due I have a CELTA and experience brought me to 740,000 per month for "part-time" hours of 20-25 per week. (Havent see any other job in the WORLD that calls this part-time hours for teaching!)

[travelgoddess]

Getting over what I think was food poisoning, so todays interview has been posponed til tomorrow, so more info on that after it all goes down.

Just thought I would tie this post to one I saw on the general la board from 2005 re working in colombia. its a very interesting read.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=20867

[travelgoddess]

A couple of more interviews since the last post.

Basically, more of the same; same hours, same rate of pay, same no visa situtation.

The reason I am writing is because I found a language school where they actually asked questions about teaching in the interview. I nearly leaned over and hugged the interviewers. We are somewhere in the hiring process right now, so unsure if I will work for them in the end, but I just wanted to post that there ARE schools that have quality standards (other than BC, IH and universities)!!!!

Oi!


Steph

[naturegirl321]

Why is it that they ask so many personal questions?

[travelgoddess]

I can only guess that they want to hear you talk and they dont know what else to ask. I have another interview tomorrow with a local school and have a new method ready for these questions; patient smile and "I would be more than happy to answer questions regarding teaching." We shall see how this goes over.

[travelgoddess]

Wanted to put some closure on this post.

Not terribly long after my last update here I ended up leaving Colombia and headed back to Hanoi, Vietnam.

I basically woke up one morning after a dream of teaching a class (not 1 student, but a class of 15 or so) and was smiling. I liked Bogota ok, but there were too many factors in the teaching component that just didnt appeal to me. Such as:

- average class size
- split shifts and running around the city all day
- lack or resources available
- lack of visa support
- lack of guaranteed hours
- no medical insurance, paid vacation, etc
- due classes were all over the city, no teacher brainstorm area (teachers room)

and probably some more I cant think of at the moment.

I did meet people who were working in Bogota. I cant say happily so, but they had enough money to survive. I personally just dont want to live that way right now.

Steph

[naturegirl321]

sorry to hear that things didn't work out for you, but at least you started a Colombia forum, how long have you been in VN? I almost went there.

[travelgoddess]

I was in Hanoi most of last year, so coming back was w little too easy.
I have been here about a week, have an apartment and 2 job offers already. Could have signed a contract already, but am waiting for an interview with a great, great, great school today and hope that works out.