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A Korean's viewpoint
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andrewchon



Joined: 16 Nov 2008
Location: In my goshiwon cubicle. Seeking moksha.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some waygug-in wrote:
Why is it that so many Koreans will not miss a chance to bash America, but those same Koreans want to move there in droves?


That's because that's how people behave but won't admit to it:

People do not like other people who are like them but more successful than they are.

e.g. me and Mitt Romney: personality traitwise I am like Mitt Romney. I am book smart but have shocking people skills. I start off with a plan and then go off on a tangent. I think I am generous but want things in return. Those are IMO are personality traits of Mitt Romney as well.
I dislike Mitt Romney intensely. I have no direct reason to do so. He and I haven't met, nor does he effect me making a living. But he boils my blood. Why? Because he is like me, or vice-versa but he is more successful than I am.
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braindrops



Joined: 13 Sep 2011

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the ongoing sidebar on whose military is better dprks or roks...

The argument about how the allies lost in vietnam ~ nk fought for winning side ~ id rather take the winning side (what is the proper inference here?)

i thought that was great. Since chomsky was already quoted earlier in the thread, here he discusses south koreans in vietnam war:

Usually wars like the Vietnam war are fought with mercenaries ... The U.S. tried to fight what amounts to a colonial war with a conscript army. And a colonial war is a very dirty kind of war. You're not fighting armed forces. You're fighting mostly unarmed people. And to fight that kind of war requires professional killers, which means mercenaries. The 50,000 Korean mercenaries we had in Vietnam were professional killers and just massacred people outright. ... It's not the kind of job you can give to conscripts who are not trained to be murderers.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

braindrops wrote:
In the ongoing sidebar on whose military is better dprks or roks...

The argument about how the allies lost in vietnam ~ nk fought for winning side ~ id rather take the winning side (what is the proper inference here?)

i thought that was great. Since chomsky was already quoted earlier in the thread, here he discusses south koreans in vietnam war:

Usually wars like the Vietnam war are fought with mercenaries ... The U.S. tried to fight what amounts to a colonial war with a conscript army. And a colonial war is a very dirty kind of war. You're not fighting armed forces. You're fighting mostly unarmed people. And to fight that kind of war requires professional killers, which means mercenaries. The 50,000 Korean mercenaries we had in Vietnam were professional killers and just massacred people outright. ... It's not the kind of job you can give to conscripts who are not trained to be murderers.


Why did he consider the Korean soldiers or marines mercenaries? They were representing their government. Makes no sense.
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rkc76sf



Joined: 02 Nov 2008

PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fermentation wrote:
According to defectors I've met, NK soldiers steal from local farmers to survive.


My wife and five year old son both defected ten years ago.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Setaro wrote:
Quote:
Rebuttals?


Not really, she's pretty much right.


Yeah, I thought her little essay was pretty good.

Actually I thought there was something very important buried in her thinking; a growing realization by people around the world that the USA is finished and that nations should start to alley-up / trade with the future powers (China, etc) and start cutting the USA out of the picture.

There's going to be some big global shifts this century, and this chick is onto it bigtime. If she's got hots as well as brains I want her phone number.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
Setaro wrote:
Quote:
Rebuttals?


Not really, she's pretty much right.


Yeah, I thought her little essay was pretty good.

Actually I thought there was something very important buried in her thinking; a growing realization by people around the world that the USA is finished and that nations should start to alley-up / trade with the future powers (China, etc) and start cutting the USA out of the picture.

There's going to be some big global shifts this century, and this chick is onto it bigtime. If she's got hots as well as brains I want her phone number.


China is definitely interested in absorbing East Asia, but what makes you think that would prevent it from continuing to do business with the USA? You seem to think China would absorb Korea and then Koreans would be learning Chinese and give up the western influence. Sorry but China is getting on board the western train just as much as Korea and Japan, if not more. So basically you would have two mother countries instead of one. The USA and China. Not only that but China has more production power than consumer power, and the USA is the opposite. So East Asian companies will still be trying to market their products to the American consumer base. China will be able to counter this when the standard of living rises but I see that as too far down the road to predict whether or not it will happen at this point. The only thing I could see preventing this is a war, in which case we are all screwed. You can be happy about that too if you want though.

And I believe China's communist ideology is from the west, as well as it's current capitalist economic model. With a few modifications of course, but the origins are from the West.

Isn't North Korea already a part of China anyway?
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For goodness sakes, its not 1905 anymore people. The days of Risk-style invasion of territories and WWII mass mobilization seems to be over.

Do you really believe China is just going to start invading countries left and right? What good does it do to invade Korea? What do they get? 75 million rebellious people and a devastated country with minimal natural resources and in exchange they become a pariah among nations and likely their export-driven economy collapses overnight. Yeah, real likely scenario. After all, China seems to really be after having as many people as possible to deal with. It's not like they try to keep their population down or anything...

If China hasn't invaded Mongolia or Taiwan yet, then I'm pretty sure that Korea is not going to be a target.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelrails wrote:
For goodness sakes, its not 1905 anymore people. The days of Risk-style invasion of territories and WWII mass mobilization seems to be over.

Do you really believe China is just going to start invading countries left and right? What good does it do to invade Korea? What do they get? 75 million rebellious people and a devastated country with minimal natural resources and in exchange they become a pariah among nations and likely their export-driven economy collapses overnight. Yeah, real likely scenario. After all, China seems to really be after having as many people as possible to deal with. It's not like they try to keep their population down or anything...

If China hasn't invaded Mongolia or Taiwan yet, then I'm pretty sure that Korea is not going to be a target.


I don't think this is about military invasions. It's about expanding the sphere of influence and economic control. If you don't think China is trying to expand it's borders you need to read up on it a little bit more. It's not only expanding, but desperately trying to hold on to certain areas where the local population isn't too happy with the Han Chinese.
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
Setaro wrote:
Quote:
Rebuttals?


Not really, she's pretty much right.


Yeah, I thought her little essay was pretty good.

Actually I thought there was something very important buried in her thinking; a growing realization by people around the world that the USA is finished and that nations should start to alley-up / trade with the future powers (China, etc) and start cutting the USA out of the picture.

There's going to be some big global shifts this century, and this chick is onto it bigtime. If she's got hots as well as brains I want her phone number.


China is definitely interested in absorbing East Asia, but what makes you think that would prevent it from continuing to do business with the USA? You seem to think China would absorb Korea and then Koreans would be learning Chinese and give up the western influence.


Your over-analysis is making my jet lag worse. Sad
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hiamnotcool wrote:
Steelrails wrote:
For goodness sakes, its not 1905 anymore people. The days of Risk-style invasion of territories and WWII mass mobilization seems to be over.

Do you really believe China is just going to start invading countries left and right? What good does it do to invade Korea? What do they get? 75 million rebellious people and a devastated country with minimal natural resources and in exchange they become a pariah among nations and likely their export-driven economy collapses overnight. Yeah, real likely scenario. After all, China seems to really be after having as many people as possible to deal with. It's not like they try to keep their population down or anything...

If China hasn't invaded Mongolia or Taiwan yet, then I'm pretty sure that Korea is not going to be a target.


I don't think this is about military invasions. It's about expanding the sphere of influence and economic control. If you don't think China is trying to expand it's borders you need to read up on it a little bit more. It's not only expanding, but desperately trying to hold on to certain areas where the local population isn't too happy with the Han Chinese.


Border clashes and disputes over islands are not the same thing.

I do agree about economic influence though.


But seriously, on these threads there is always some poster who envisions the Chinese Army storming past the Yalu and declaring Korea part of China. Too many video games and bad thriller novels.
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hiamnotcool



Joined: 06 Feb 2012

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KimchiNinja wrote:
hiamnotcool wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
Setaro wrote:
Quote:
Rebuttals?


Not really, she's pretty much right.


Yeah, I thought her little essay was pretty good.

Actually I thought there was something very important buried in her thinking; a growing realization by people around the world that the USA is finished and that nations should start to alley-up / trade with the future powers (China, etc) and start cutting the USA out of the picture.

There's going to be some big global shifts this century, and this chick is onto it bigtime. If she's got hots as well as brains I want her phone number.


China is definitely interested in absorbing East Asia, but what makes you think that would prevent it from continuing to do business with the USA? You seem to think China would absorb Korea and then Koreans would be learning Chinese and give up the western influence.


Your over-analysis is making my jet lag worse. Sad


It's what the girl was hoping for in her essay. It's what you agreed with. Hardly over-analysis. The two of you seem to still have a childish Us Vs Them mentality.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe that the P.L.A. has maps showing North korea as Chinese territory. this caused a big kerfuffle in Asia. The P.L. A is an occupying force in East China. they have had a war with every neighbor but the North.
of course the U.S. russia and Japan would never tolerate a chinese invasion but it seems China is intent on absorbing it's puppet.

The Japanese have already decided it seems that the U.S. military is on it's way out in East Asia. to the Japanese it is simple, who will fill the void, Japan or China. of course Japan has scores to settle with the Russians.

empires tend to last a long time, they may lose their power but remaints usuall remain, like the Spanish empire. Of course it may well be that the 21st century is the American century. in a few years we will have the youngest population of the four largest economies.

But this is guaranteed when empires crumble there are always wars. East Asia is an explosive place.
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JustinC



Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the money to be made by the Rothschild, Rockerfeller, Kennedy, Li, Van Duyn, Windsor and Onassis families? Is it in a (potentially) nuclear skirmish in east Asia or opening up more markets to globalization. And what sort of security do those (and other) families want to ensure that their needs are met? Empires rise and fall and so do the people pulling our politicians' strings, so they will be tugging like crazy when uncertainty is high, as they know opportunities will abound when volatility is raised.

Yep, just went full retard. And it felt GOOD.
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Steelrails



Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rollo wrote:

of course the U.S. russia and Japan would never tolerate a chinese invasion but it seems China is intent on absorbing it's puppet.

And it probably has a map with Mongolia, N.Vietnam, The Philippines, Parts of India, and more as its "territory".

That doesn't mean it's actually going to try and invade and conquer those places. It's called a morale tool. Just because you see a StarsNStripes painted over Iraq doesn't mean that Iraq is about to become the 51st state.

That's the same kind of fear-mongering as those news stories where it says "Such and such a country has war plans against Country B". Guess what? Every country has war plans for every other country. Doesn't mean that they're about to go to war.


Quote:
But this is guaranteed when empires crumble there are always wars. East Asia is an explosive place.


50 years since major mobilized wars but lets keep on dreaming about it.

If these people who always fantasize about these kinds of scenarios lived in 1939 they'd be going on about wars between the King of Spain against the King of Norway and the need for a proper amount of cavalry and a good bayonet drill.
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rollo



Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China

PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes I understand 1939. Actually what they were saying was that because of The Somme and VErdun nations would never ever put giant armies in the field again and that the world had learned its lessons after the slaughter of World War one. War had become so horribe that it was impossible that another like WWl would ever be fought again. So with that history in mind, we should all know that the reason that Russia, china, North Korea, Japan are all increasing the size of their armed forces is just for show. Because of course after the horrors of wwll there will never be a war like that again. It would just be too horrible

The constitution of the P.R.C. calls for China expand to its former borders. and that is the rub. its former borders include a large part of India, all of korea and a large part of Siberia. yeah they have some interesting maps and they really piss off their neighbors. China has acheived some of their expansion goals having conquered and absorbed Tibet and Xijiang, and have north Korea as a tribute state.
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