Job Discussion Forums

[overhere]

I have been flirting with teaching for years...been coming to this site for at least 10 years...the plan was to start TEFL'ng at age 55 in 2016 when I start drawing a pension....honestly I can't take my job anymore...I am miserable.

I enjoy teaching as a volunteer...spend most of my vacation time in SE Asia and that is where I want to be.

my background

JD and 3 unrelated masters

I work as an administrator now...did HR training for years...managed a career center..taught as an adjunct and volunteer as an ESL instructor for a local non profit organization.

My only real debt is $200/month student loan but repayment is based on income so it would be lowered. I have maybe $20,000 in the bank....I have a nice IRA when I turn 59 1/2 and when I turn 55 I will collect a pension around $1950 a month. I am single/no dependents

I live very simply...I don't even own a car

I do like american fastfood other than that I won't be spurging unless it is for a trip to Bangkok now and again

I was thinking about getting my CELTA through ILA or one of the big chains...would be nice to have a job in place after training...eventually would like to teach at an University.


Does my plan so doable???

[mark_in_saigon]

Sure, your profile is really quite good for this work, this place is a lot better for folks with some money and who want to enjoy life than it is for folks who have to have the income without fail. To me, that is the key. Of course, if you don't have money, you can still make it, but it is not as much fun, and a lot riskier in case of injury, job loss, whatever.

Lots of info on most of these questions already on the site, I think the search function is working again, so try it if you have not tried it lately. Lots of discussion on CELTA vs TEFL, and ILA vs Apollo, so just read those threads again. My bottom line is CELTA is better, but you can fail, and ILA will humiliate you, Apollo will respect you. TEFL you can pass in your sleep, and schools will hire you regardless if you look good in person and you demonstrate the abilities. Pick your poison.

My main suggestion, consider slanting your goals towards business training, which can pay more, and is more difficult to find truly qualified teachers for. Any decent native speaker can do some form of English teaching here, not so many have qualifications for advanced business training, which requires simultaneous English improvement (usually), as well as your specialized knowledge.

I would not worry about a job in place, they want to see you here, half of us never show up if hired from abroad. You won't have problems finding work, and it is better to see what the area and school is like in person for you. Lots of folks say unis are worse than language centers. Some may be okay. Perhaps what you really should focus on there is the level of students you are teaching, rather than if it is a uni or a language center. You really have to be here and kick around before you can decide what is truly best for you. I am assuming you have been to this region and/or country, and are well aware of the negatives, right?

[overhere]

Thank you Mark....Yes I have been to HCMC...Although I might not have experienced all the negatives..I know the traffic is crazy and some people attempt to rip you off...but I have enjoyed my visits there and can deal with annoyances...I am pretty flexible about that stuff.....What is your experience with management...are most hands off or are you under the gun? I would rather earn less and work in a more laid back envioronment...My preference is to teach teenager or adults.

So does a TELF suffice in Vietnam? Somehow I got the impression a CELTA was required in most places. Thanks for the heads up on ILA I would not want to pay $2,000 to be humilated and fail the course!...I hated that about law school...for some reason law profs feel compeled to embarrass students/customers...never understood why...because they can I suppose. I will check out Apollo instead.

Thanks again for your advice!

[mark_in_saigon]

CELTA is certainly not required for most places, it may marginally improve your employability, but not as much as it should, based on the quality of the program compared to the TEFL (in my opinion). I just got an outstanding job offer to teach the most advanced students at a very good school based on my other qualifications, they did not blink an eye about the fact I had the TEFL I cert and not the CELTA. They just have to have a cert. On the ILA vs Apollo thing, that is just my experience, which I documented after I checked on them both quite thoroughly, but not to say it could not have changed in the last few months, and it could be different in HN too. For my money, I would do CELTA at Apollo (HCMC, cannot speak with much authority about HN), but again, you can get most jobs with the TEFL, where you just basically pay for a certificate and learn very little. It is a difficult decision, really depends on each student. One can make the argument that being jerked around is part of your education, and will get you ready for life and work here. Just depends on you.

On management, or everything, the best description I know is "pot luck". That is why you really have to be here, and not afraid to hop around (and have the resources and personal freedom to do it) to finally find just the right deal for you. You also have to determine if your life can stand the pollution and other dangers of the big cities. Lots to factor in for each person, what is right for one guy is not right for another. If you smoke anyway, so what, you know? Or just quit smoking but keep breathing, you have the same result. Some management will just totally leave you alone, they fear losing you, they know you are far more competent than they are, but then, they likely have all these built in insoluble problems if they are that way. Others may try to address problems, but do it so poorly that they create more problems with their attempts. Again, you have to hop around a while til you find the right fit. Even saying "such and such school is first rate" does not address what your particular experience will be, it is a generalization that will not apply to every specific. Sorry, it is just pot luck.

[Beautiful Loser]

20K in the bank??? You could milk that for at least 2 years!

Yes, your plan is doable. You'll have more than enough time to find a suitable job.

[Dekadan]

I've found the advice from MIS and BL to be pretty accurate in most posts and I would say they have realistic views and not cynical slants. The only thing that I have a minor disagreement with is MIS's view on the CELTA at ILA. I've had friends go through the course (though not me, I did mine at home) and they were quite happy with it. I didn't hear anything about the humiliation. MIS, do you know if it was a regular instructor doing that? Often, a guest instructor comes in for CELTAs, so I've heard. Regardless, definitely check out the two places and see what gives you a better feel.

In regards to CELTA vs TEFL, if your other qualifications are good enough, it probably doesn't matter too much. However, the general consensus is that CELTA has a better reputation - not meaning a knock on you, MIS. I've picked up hours based on having a CELTA and a Pass A (first time I saw a visible reaction to the Pass A too; the director of studies at my current school was noticeably impressed). If you're academically inclined, and can take constructive criticism, go for the CELTA, and work your a** off, that mark sticks with you. You never know when you'll need that extra bump in qualifications.

Otherwise, yeah, your plan is definitely doable. With 20k in the bank, you can definitely float for a while in HCMC, and then throw in your extra income when they kick in, you'll be sitting pretty... at least in the current circumstances! You never know when things will shake up over there, I found HCMC changes a lot quicker than my home town. Not to mention the inflation...

Best of luck!

[mark_in_saigon]

I try to be as factual as possible, and also state when it is just my opinion, or what I heard second hand. If you go thru my posts on all that, it should all pretty much be there, but it is on more than one thread, so perhaps you missed part of it. Here is what I know firsthand:

The guy handling recruitment to the ILA CELTA in HCMC by email was rude and uppity. The guy doing the same thing with Apollo in HCMC was reasonable and polite. As they both give a CELTA, that was all the info I needed.

A British TEFL teacher in HCMC who knows some of the ILA teachers confirmed that they are rude. He said one of the ILA teachers stated that if half the students did not cry at some point in the process, they were not successful. Note, this is no longer my first hand info, I am just quoting others now.

Kornan on this site had quite a bit of comment on ILA, which was negative, again, not my info.

Please also note I go into a lot of detail about TEFL I. They also are not without sin, their program was second rate (at best), and I have no doubt you would learn more with CELTA. I am very thorough when I do something big in my life, I investigated this stuff in great detail. I feel that there really is the need for a mid range provider on this, one who does a credible job, who does a more professional job than TEFL I, yet a course that most anyone can pass (ANYONE can pass TEFL I). In my mind, given the available choices, if you want the prestige of the CELTA (which does not seem to be rewarded as much as it should be, or perhaps I should say, the TEFL I cert is not as disregarded as IT should be comparatively), I would not choose ILA unless they were a much lower price than Apollo, in other words, they would almost have to pay me to put up with them. When you think about it, we are their customers, why do customers have to pay to be disrespected? I think for the average teacher (and I mean, look at what the average expat teaching here is really like), much as I hate to say it, TEFL I is probably the best choice. You are just paying for a cert, but you will not fail, and the schools do not seem to realize how poorly managed their deal really is. Or maybe they just don't care, that may be it.

Major disclaimer to everything: it is all pot luck here. Yeah, who knows, you can go there and maybe it is all different. I have also read that a lot depends on your profile. Supposedly ILA wants to prove they know more than you, and so you are supposed to sit there like a bright young face, basking in their glory, then everything is fine. The minute you question some obvious flaw in their process or something, you have lost it, and you will be swimming against the current. Experienced professionals should probably lie about their backgrounds until the course is over so they do not have to fight this battle. I drew their wrath when I pointed out some obvious mistakes in their form letter, from that moment on, they hated me. Really, it was my way of testing them, Apollo could take the same kind of criticism with grace and courtesy, and so the question was answered for me. School's out.

[Dekadan]

As I said, MIS (or do you prefer Mark?), I generally agree with everything you say and I do notice that you separate your opinion out. This is the first time I've heard that about ILA (I just read Kornan's comments and yours. Sounds unpleasant), all I've heard is that my friends had a good experience with their course there. I worked there for almost a year, and while I was definitely ready to move on by the end of it